[Spoilers] Dtay's first PB: When you play a game of CIV, you win or you die

[Mardoc]

This is going to be fun to watch.

[dtay]

Always glad to provide entertainment

[dtay]

It is done. We have salted the fields, burnt the interloping city of The Turtle to the ground. Gorge your eyes on the glorious sight of its smoking ruins:






Interestingly, I see now what the plan with the chops was. They chopped out a scout. I guess this way I would have to beat their ax on the first attack rather than getting a 2nd go at it with my triple-upgrade-but-wounded Wrath.




I doubt I can take any of Jowy's/TBS cities, even with a metal advantage. If he didn't already have archery (I believe not given he could have gotten 25 hammers in the relevant timeframe + god he got so many religious techs when would he have had the time) he certainly can get it by the time I mount an attack on his real cities. + defender mobility, + defender whip, yeah I'm not taking anything else.

What I can do is just harass him and stop him from expanding in my direction. I need to be careful not to get too invested in this, since hurting Jowy (sorry The Black Sword, your name is just too long to type all the time) only indirectly helps me. But if I can use my current military forces + a chariot or something to make his expansion difficult (particularly if I can continue to deny him metal), that's feels like a worthy investment.

I wonder if people will notice Jowy had an offturn score decrease. I'm certainly not paying much attention to the details of other non-adjacent players, and I don't think anyone besides me has actually met Jowy given EP's...

In other news, barbs are annoying SC. I had to whip a warrior out. Well HAD is strong. I could have bet on the 95% odds, but I'd prefer 0 risk of randomly losing a city to a barb. Idk, caution here seems advisable given I just scored an important victory and don't need the RNG gods to screw me over in retaliation.




Its not a total loss anyway, obviously the emergency whip is unideal/unoptimal, but the overflow will go into the granary and the warrior can go fogbust afterwards.

[dtay]

Question for the lurkers: Do is the barbarian ai predictable re: whether it will attack my city or pillage the improvement, or is it RNG determined?

Other question: Is it acceptable for me to go back in and have my warrior attack the barb warrior even if TBS/Jowy move in the meantime? (assuming their movements don't like involve troops suddenly appearing by my borders). Since the warriors v barb warrior calculation has little (nothing) to do with the status of the war would that escape being counted as a double move?

By the letter of the law it would seem to violate the timesplit regardless, by the spirit I feel like its not a double move given different theaters // my decision isn't changed by what they do, just by lurker response to the pillaging question.

[dtay]

Realization of personal stupidity: I should have attacked out (if I'm going to) BEFORE whipping that city. ARGH. Oh well. Sometimes you mess things up.

[Rowain]

Question for the lurkers: Do is the barbarian ai predictable re: whether it will attack my city or pillage the improvement, or is it RNG determined?

AFAIK the unit gets assigned a task at creation (pillaging or attacking ) and has a high chance to do that task. But even primary pillagers might attack a city if the circumstances are right. So it si most likely RNG with different chances to do a or b depending on the Units prime task.

Other question: Is it acceptable for me to go back in and have my warrior attack the barb warrior even if TBS/Jowy move in the meantime? (assuming their movements don't like involve troops suddenly appearing by my borders). Since the warriors v barb warrior calculation has little (nothing) to do with the status of the war would that escape being counted as a double move?

By the letter of the law it would seem to violate the timesplit regardless, by the spirit I feel like its not a double move given different theaters // my decision isn't changed by what they do, just by lurker response to the pillaging question.

While it is most likely true that it won't matter it opens a can of worms. Because where do you draw the line then. What if he gets a promotion now which later plays a role.? Or if he reaches the war-theatre just the deciding halfturn earlier than he would otherwise etc. In regard with such rules I think holding strictly to the letter is the better way.

[Krill]

I disagree with Rowain, I think it's perfectly acceptable. Once three way or more war turns start occurring you have to be more flexible, and I don't see why barbs are any different. But it's best if you document it with screenshots that you post so lurkers can see.

[dtay]

Ok so I went in and did it, only changes were making the warrior attack and moving the citizen back to working the now-uncovered cows. Reiterating the logic for acceptability:

1) I did not use information acquired from Jowy/TBS's turn to alter my move, and in fact indicated by desire to go do it before they started their turn (if there was a risk the barb would pillage the improvement).

2) Extreme geographic separation, such that their moves couldn't affect it.

3) Screenshots documenting such:

My Empire Before:



My Empire After:




Changed citizen to work the cows




Here's a shot of the military units off in the east (positions before log-in can be seen in earlier post)




Incidentally, I took a look at the Power Graphs, Jowy either just built a TON of military or researched a military tech





They also offered peace on their turn. I declined. Not that I want total war with them, but right now they obviously can't do much to me and I can annoy them. I don't think they're going to forgive and forget no matter what I do (though that sure is logic for a needless war right there lol).

I could see accepting peace once their military is about equal to mine and has equivalent capacity to annoy me, but all 10t peace right now would do is given them a chance to get copper (either the North or South ones) and build a military up to defend themselves.

I hope there isn't copper (nearby) off to their east. The fact they settled at least 7 tiles out of territory off by me for copper suggests otherwise, but I'd like to be able to try to control their access.

Based on the power graph their military has at most 2 metal units. I don't think I see any horse units on the graph, and their lack of appearance during conflict suggests otherwise.

Finally, lets ruminate a moment, MAN aggressive has proved useful. If we had been fighting over that city on equal terms with unpromo axes I would have had no shot. With Agg, not only do I get the combat 1 promo, but the cheap barracks that pop borders meant it was logical to built early barracks, so I had early shock axes just INCIDENTALLY, without long-planned aggression. Coupled with the maintenance saving, I really think Agg is a great treat in RBmod, at least in crowded maps.

Phi hasn't done anything for me yet, but I hope to make it soon with that GS (set back by my idiocy in what order to whip/fight in SC).

Edited to make screenshot work

[Ceiliazul]

Realization of personal stupidity: I should have attacked out (if I'm going to) BEFORE whipping that city. ARGH. Oh well. Sometimes you mess things up.

yep. but it happens to everyone (except krill).

keep up the good reporting!

[dtay]

Ruminating Ruminating:

So the next city I'm settling is def that ph spot NW of the lake. But the where to settle after that is in flux.

Option 1: Fill the Holes
I could grap the hill 3E of SC, it would allow me to cottage up the river valley and could share the cows with SC. Ok-ish city, goal would be to work a bunch (well, a few) cottages and make money.

Option 2: Aggression
Plant a city on the desert hill 2E of Jowy's city ruins. This spot rocks IMO, Gold, Grassland Cows, Copper, Flood Plains... the lack of grassland hampers it long term but it stagnating at size 7 is an EXCELLENT early city. Can I defend it? We'll see. I bet I can defend it but I would prefer not to spark a total-tilt by Jowy that I have to stave off. (Wonder if its too late for that... I mean he has to know that was an aggressive plant, well we'll see what happens. Right now I need to heal my axes and get a settler out, I'll have to make a judgment about where this war is going in 4t or so).

Option 3: Secure the Line
Settle (in a spot yet to be determined) south of my PH-Lake spot so try and make that the dividing line between our civilizations.

Option 4/5: Get those northern silvers. They look pretty. One even has lots of surrounding grassland.

By the way, I want to know where his capital is... lol. Once my axes are healed I'll send them off down that road maybe, see what's happening.