[SPOILERS] Small Wunders and Izzy of Inca: The fat lady sings

[WilliamLP]

Short-term? Not buying it. You've been very reluctant to attack Retep despite what I consider to be certainty in the outcome of the fight.

More dead horse flogging perhaps, but I see us attacking retep (in close to 12 hours) at just the point where we're set up to economically absorb developing his cities.

I didn't see certainty in our ability to defend against Ichabod before this point. That's the crux of it. Also sacrificing an earlier military buildup would mean we would be far behind the tech we have right now.

This is as good of a time to win that city as we're likely to ever have for the rest of the game.

Again if what we win is a slower tech rate and more need for military than we would otherwise have, then I don't mind. But I disagree with the second part too - if we develop what we've got we get to cuirs or rifles or cavalry much sooner than Bacchus does and we can take the city then. In the snowball game we're rolling faster, further down the hill than Bacchus.

Really, what are the odds that we'll be conquoring that city before the end of the game given your preference is to avoid attacking mature cities?

About the same as the odds that we can get to rifles without dying first.

It would mean Retep would be totally dead (all assuming this attack works). This has advantages for happiness, culture, and any units Bacchus kills, we don't have to kill ourselves.

If you angled this in a 'let Bacchus try and we'll clean up the survivors' way, then I might be inclined but then that comes with the risk of not achieving those advantages.

Getting that naval production city sitting on a hill is a net positive in defending against Commodore. Scooter? I've paid zero attention to the global map so far. If he's coming from the SW, then I'd rather have that city than not have it.

Broken record maybe, but I feel like the biggest factor in defense against Commodore is how far behind him we are to rifles. (And the obvious factor of what scooter is planning to do.) If the copper city is a net positive for production (to offset being a negative for commerce) it has to make up for the additional hammers of units needed to guard it.

But anyway, let's see what shakes out before investing too much mental energy in this. There are a lot of things that could suddenly happen that could change everything.

[MindyMcCready]

But anyway, let's see what shakes out before investing too much mental energy in this. There are a lot of things that could suddenly happen that could change everything.

Sounds good.

[WilliamLP]

Dammit, Boldly, don't ping Retep's thread... Shhh, everything's normal. Passive William never initiates an attack...

[Mardoc]

Passive William never initiates an attack...

Hope you're planning massive documentary evidence. Otherwise I'll have trouble believing you.

[WilliamLP]

Dhal is getting eaten by Plako... And Bacchus has joined in on the other side, taking a city himself! Both our cities without religion suddenly got random spreads. A bunch of golden ages ended.

Disputed island:




I'm letting Commodore take another shot at a stack of 2 galleys if he wants, with a 25% chance to lose outright. The lower one in the stack is at 80% health but it will be near 100% next turn. Also he won't be able to see the wounded trireme (at 60%). It's there in case of disastrous RNG rolls.

I think he's expecting a shipment of knights to take a run at Bathurst, hence the spear there now. He doesn't know me very well because I never actually attack cities with culture.




I don't think Retep knew this was the war turn, or he probably wouldn't have left a worker open in the forest 2E of Horse City. I took it (frankly we can really use another worker) and left 3 longbows there, 2 with shock. I'm pretty sure he's not going to want to try and capture the worker back.

The main stack is selected, and the secondary stack is highlighted on the left. There are also 3 knights and 3 longbows just outside his borders. The 2-stack merge I'm doing is a bit hare brained, but we have so much more power than he does ready that splitting for 1 turn should be fine.

I thought we might have a chance at an immediate surprise strike with knights, but he'll be able to have at least 3 archers and 4 spears in Suit Up next turn. That's enough that merging and sieging up is probably going to be the better plan.

So how vulnerable are we on Ichabod's front?




This isn't an unbeatable defense at all, but it's certainly not trivial to take out. We're taking a bit of a risk that he doesn't have a big siege stack ready to beat this down.




25gpt in unit costs isn't small change, but it's not devastating either.

[MindyMcCready]

Just a couple of things.

One of the worst mistakes you can make is to stop making military when at war. Jowy did that to AT in PB9 and he lost cities for it. We're not really in that same situation, but we may need to replace our catapults in a hurry. And in general, now that we've got Knights or defense options have probably gotten better. With a critical mass we'd be able to attack into an invading stack. I don't know that you're not building military of course,....

Bacchus took a city from Dhal!?! So we could presume that his army is deployed southside. Anyway, just thought that I'd mention what a fine catch that copper city is. With luck Suit Up will go well and/or Bacchus might make a pre-mature strike at copper city.

Jeez, Ichaobod really pedal to the metal on military. Another reason that we can't afford to stop building military. Kinda scary how much more military he has than us despite our full on response to his build up. We probably need to reserve the ability to switch to slavery while our army is west side.

[WilliamLP]

Just a couple of things.

One of the worst mistakes you can make is to stop making military when at war. Jowy did that to AT in PB9 and he lost cities for it. We're not really in that same situation, but we may need to replace our catapults in a hurry. And in general, now that we've got Knights or defense options have probably gotten better. With a critical mass we'd be able to attack into an invading stack. I don't know that you're not building military of course,....

There are some military builds, but many cities are pausing to build a round of infrastructure. Sorry, but military all the time will just get us eliminated from this game much earlier. All units now have a shelf life that runs out as soon as Ichabod or Commodore gets rifles.

Bacchus took a city from Dhal!?! So we could presume that his army is deployed southside. Anyway, just thought that I'd mention what a fine catch that copper city is. With luck Suit Up will go well and/or Bacchus might make a pre-mature strike at copper city.

I still think the copper city is a massive overextension for us right now, and really would prefer to get in, destroy retep, and get the heck out as fast as possible before Ichabod can set up to counter properly. The principle is I don't like a city where there's an immediate neighbour with something to gain (Scooter) who can take the city basically for free with nothing we can do about it, even in theory. It's a whole new potential war front which we don't need.

We can have this discussion more in a few turns because right now I don't think it affects any short term decisions.

Jeez, Ichaobod really pedal to the metal on military. Another reason that we can't afford to stop building military. Kinda scary how much more military he has than us despite our full on response to his build up. We probably need to reserve the ability to switch to slavery while our army is west side.

The only consolation is that his defensive needs are also a lot higher than ours, with naval borders vs Dtay, Harry, Plako. Plako is occupied in war vs Dhal. Harry has forced peace with Mackoti. (They did the declare and peace dance a couple of turns ago.) Dhal [EDIT: I meant Dtay of course] on the other hand is the lib / Taj winner and is now drafting. And his future prospects could possibly go through Ichabod.

After this war with Retep, I'm most interested in playing to not die as soon as Ichabod gets rifles, which means keeping up in tech is everything. I expect to sneak in a round of courthouses in most cities over the weekend when you aren't attending the thread, HAHA.

[Ceiliazul]

lol! loving the 'dual survival' aspect of this thread. good thoughts from both of you yet total opposite approaches so often.

also, in the previous post, dhal = dtay.

[MindyMcCready]

lol! loving the 'dual survival' aspect of this thread. good thoughts from both of you yet total opposite approaches so often.

also, in the previous post, dhal = dtay.

"so often",....you could have said 'sooooooooooo' often. :LOL: It's Ying-vs-Yang over in WLP land.

After this war with Retep, I'm most interested in playing to not die as soon as Ichabod gets rifles, which means keeping up in tech is everything. I expect to sneak in a round of courthouses in most cities over the weekend when you aren't attending the thread, HAHA.

:LOL: Yeah, I'm not saying 100% military, just don't drop off completely and/or do start replacing the cats we're going to lose.

Agree on the rifles although I will point out that muskets with the CG promotion are pretty strong defenders. We should be able to highly promote with the spiritual trait.

[WilliamLP]

It's fair to say we should have more cats. You don't often get to play with knights vs someone who doesn't have construction or longbows yet though. So we probably don't have to lose many cats here since knights and LBs may get odds just by bombarding defenses.

Indeed it's going to be pretty awkward if Ichabod attacks in the next couple of turns. It would be quite an instance of Deus Ex Machina for Retep.

I've never been sold on the value of muskets over longbows at 80 hammers to 50. In a hill city, I'm guessing it's easier to take down 5 muskets than 8 longbows if all have CG2. (Muskets get better multipliers, vs inherent 50% bonus and first strike for the cheaper bows.) A stack of rifles and cats (let alone cannons) takes down either stack cost effectively though. But it does have to be a big stack.