RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[Ruff_Hi]

I find this thread fairly ad hominem ...

Thanks for the 'word-a-day' ad hominem ... I had to look that up as I hadn't seen it before. One bit that I liked was ...

"You are just an ignorant twit." This is an insult and it is abusive, but it is not an argument. Because it is not an argument, it cannot be a fallacy. Of course, that doesn't mean that such personal insults are OK - just that when they appear alone, they aren't logical fallacies.

Divide people into pro- and anti- Sulla camps, then look at post content. I think you'll find the opinions expressed correlate fairly well with how they perceive him.

And who gets to decide which camp each poster is in? Actually - I don't care which camp others are in ... which camp do you think I am in?

My thinking on my own camp is Lurker Camp ... neither pro or anti ... but please tell me if you think that I am coming across as either .

[darrelljs]

Nice link...it taught me that I'm using the phrase incorrectly . I was trying to say was that people had (quite naturally) chosen sides, but that they chose them based on what they thought of Sulla, and not necessarily on the game itself. So for example I think you are on the CoW side, because you're irked by some of the Mean Things that Sulla has said in his thread. However, I don't think you were making ad hominem style arguements in your posts. I didn't mean anything negative by it, I just found it interesting.

I, of course, am rooting for Sulla, because of all the Mean Things he said about Jowy (who refused to help us), and Kathlete (for killing us) .

Darrell

[Sir Bruce]

I can only speak for myself, but I'm trying hard not to root for either side. I'm rooting for an interesting game that stays entertaining for lurkers until the very end.

For that goal, there are two competing forces. One, I think many would agree with me that both Speaker and Sullla's updates are the most in-depth and informative. If they get destroyed, the average update quality for PB2 goes way down. Second, the game would quickly get boring if Team Spullla gets an insurmountable tech lead. Sure we'd get informative updates, but they'd all be of the "watch my rifles destroy this city" type.

So, my preferred outcome of the war is that Spullla takes a medium-size beating, enough to put them in a hole. That way they can stay competitive and provide us with interesting updates, but we still get a lot of excitement over the eventual outcome of the game.

[MWIN]

Inca are expanding rather fast. Rome doesn’t know it yet, but most of it’s planned city sites are gone. No Globe City. Dsp even what that horse and deer city. Will sure be interesting.

[Ruff_Hi]

So for example I think you are on the CoW side, because you're irked by some of the Mean Things that Sulla has said in his thread.

Very nicely worded ... am I irked? Yes, I think that I am a little. Is that swaying my comments? No it is not. Are my comments biased? Yes, I think that they could be taken that way ... My national background causes me to support the under-dog when they need supporting. There is also a cultural reaction to looping off the tall poppy that I try very hard to resist. I am also a very strong believer in equity. I would argue that my posts reflect the first and third items described above and is my attempt to even the playing field regarding pro- and anti- Spullla posts. If everyone was posting tons of CoW supporting stuff then I would like to think that I would be posting Spullla supportive stuff.

Of course, I could be totally kidding myself and rationalizing away my growing hatred of Spullla ... but I don't think that I am .. but I could be ... etc

I, of course, am rooting for Sulla, because of all the Mean Things he said about Jowy (who refused to help us), and Kathlete (for killing us) .

I can only speak for myself, but I'm trying hard not to root for either side. I'm rooting for an interesting game that stays entertaining for lurkers until the very end.

For that goal, there are two competing forces. One, I think many would agree with me that both Speaker and Sullla's updates are the most in-depth and informative. If they get destroyed, the average update quality for PB2 goes way down. Second, the game would quickly get boring if Team Spullla gets an insurmountable tech lead. Sure we'd get informative updates, but they'd all be of the "watch my rifles destroy this city" type.

So, my preferred outcome of the war is that Spullla takes a medium-size beating, enough to put them in a hole. That way they can stay competitive and provide us with interesting updates, but we still get a lot of excitement over the eventual outcome of the game.

I couldn't agree more .

[Morgan]

From my limited lurking, Spulla seem to be making the most effort not only to play the game but in the write ups too. Therefore with Ruff's cultural underdog theory i'm with Spulla. TBH they are only targeted because of the threat they pose - I suspect a less well known team may have slipped under the radar in the same circumstances.

[dazedroyalty]

I think Spulla is incredibly intelligent and I'm rooting for them to win because it'd be amazing to see them defeat a 5v1! That said, I also agree that his tone is often condescending. I think he may forget that not everyone is as experience or has as much time/interest in the tiny details that he loves. (I mean, have you read his Final Fantasy reports? Fascinating but there's no way in heck I would spend that much time trying to defeat bosses with crazy variants. But he thrives on that stuff)

[antisocialmunky]

I'm not really for or against Spullla at this point in time. I was in the anti-Spullla camp way about at around the 30 page mark where I was ranting about how poor his diplo is. But as of right now, I don't really hate or dishate Spullla. And I agree with Bruce, well put.

And yeah, ad hominem is just an attack on the person to discredit his/her argument if you're talking debate wise.

[sunrise089]

Despite agreeing their big-picture diplo is by far their worst area of play, and maybe even objectively bad, I'm also rooting for Spullla due to the aforementioned anti-Greek/anti-Ottoman feelings that like on in the hearts of Byzantine refugees. Plus, Speaker is a clanmate.

However when people say they're rooting for the "underdog," what side do they mean? 5v1 means little-to-nothing when the attacks are halfhearted (HRE), late (HRE+Rome), uncoordinated (Ottomans+Greece), or just tactically silly (Mali, and the terrible terrible "keep borders open so our stack can be spotted" pre-war move in the north). I'll give credit where credit is due - Speaker and Sullla have played well to avoid loosing even a single city (at least pre-Praets), but even mediocre players shouldn't loose more than 1-2 cities against the current level of enemy play.

I am also a very strong believer in equity.

Of opportunity or outcome?

[Ruff_Hi]

Of opportunity or outcome?

Good question! Opportunity.