[PB69 SPOILERS] Magic Science and Nobody Else in Pitboss 69

[Amicalola]

Fwiw, I found the BE effect helpful on the attack, but no difference on the defence (compared to normal elephants, which are very good already).

I think that for the Ballista Elephants' special power to be useful, it needs to cause you to have different combat matchups, not just the same matchups in a different order. So, if your army or your enemy’s army is homogenous, it is useless. It needs to at least be something like this:
YOU Ballista Elephant + Whatever Unit X vs. ENEMY Mounted Unit Y + Non-Mounted Unit Z,
for which Ballista Elephant’s have better odds against Mounted Unit Y than Non-Mounted Unit Y, and Whatever Unit X has better odds against Non-Mounted Unit Z than Mounted Unit Y. So, your Ballista Elephants can use their special power to get their favored matchup against Mounted Unit Y, and clear them out to make way for your Whatever Unit X to get their favored matchup against Non-Mounted Unit Z. So, both categories of your units get their favored matchups instead of both getting their unfavored matchups, thanks to the power of Ballista Elephants.


For example:
MY Ballista Elephants + Chariots vs. NAUFRAGAR’S Chariots + Axemen.
My Ballista Elephants can use their special power to kill the Chariots first, then my Chariots can hit the Axemen right away. This is the superior alternative to BE’s vs. Axemen and Chariots vs. Chariots.
It is more complicated than that since there is a mismatch in the numbers of each category, and Ballista Elephants are only a small part of my army anyway (4 of them vs. 10 Crossbowmen and 6 Axemen), and there are Catapults in play now, but I think the basic idea is true.


I had not thought about the difference invading someone vs. protecting myself would make on that special power. . I guess when I defend, I prefer to use my tile defenses if I can, and stack compositions will be different too.
The current war with Naufragar is not exactly attacking or defending. Also, it has involved only one actual fight so far: my Spearman vs. his spying Chariot. . The rest is just paranoia and posturing. But he probably already told you that.

Oops, I meant this the other way around.

[Krill]

Can we get an overview pic of your lands please? And thank you for the updates.

[Magic Science]

Can you do the lurkers a favor in your next essay and include graphs?

Belatedly, roger roger.
From Turn 146.
5/7

   
   
   
   
   

[Magic Science]

7/7.

   
   

Info Screen Demographics too.
   

[Magic Science]

Fwiw, I found the BE effect helpful on the attack, but no difference on the defence (compared to normal elephants, which are very good already).

I think that for the Ballista Elephants' special power to be useful, it needs to cause you to have different combat matchups, not just the same matchups in a different order. So, if your army or your enemy’s army is homogenous, it is useless. It needs to at least be something like this:
YOU Ballista Elephant + Whatever Unit X vs. ENEMY Mounted Unit Y + Non-Mounted Unit Z,
for which Ballista Elephant’s have better odds against Mounted Unit Y than Non-Mounted Unit Y, and Whatever Unit X has better odds against Non-Mounted Unit Z than Mounted Unit Y. So, your Ballista Elephants can use their special power to get their favored matchup against Mounted Unit Y, and clear them out to make way for your Whatever Unit X to get their favored matchup against Non-Mounted Unit Z. So, both categories of your units get their favored matchups instead of both getting their unfavored matchups, thanks to the power of Ballista Elephants.


For example:
MY Ballista Elephants + Chariots vs. NAUFRAGAR’S Chariots + Axemen.
My Ballista Elephants can use their special power to kill the Chariots first, then my Chariots can hit the Axemen right away. This is the superior alternative to BE’s vs. Axemen and Chariots vs. Chariots.
It is more complicated than that since there is a mismatch in the numbers of each category, and Ballista Elephants are only a small part of my army anyway (4 of them vs. 10 Crossbowmen and 6 Axemen), and there are Catapults in play now, but I think the basic idea is true.


I had not thought about the difference invading someone vs. protecting myself would make on that special power. . I guess when I defend, I prefer to use my tile defenses if I can, and stack compositions will be different too.
The current war with Naufragar is not exactly attacking or defending. Also, it has involved only one actual fight so far: my Spearman vs. his spying Chariot. . The rest is just paranoia and posturing. But he probably already told you that.

Oops, I meant this the other way around.

So, "[You] found the BE effect helpful on the attack defense, but not difference on the defense attack". That could make sense to me. On the defense, BEs can use the roads, so they can use their special power to perform careful hit-and-run attacks on the mounted units in the invading stack.

Start 2 tiles away from the invading stack, over the road.
Move 1 tile.
Move 1 more tile to attack.
Special power means BE gets a favorable combat against an enemy mounted unit, instead of an unfavorable combat against an enemy anti-mounted unit.
Move 1 last tile back to the starting tile.
Praise God for Engineering.

That could work to pick off invading enemy mounted units as they advance if you don't have enough defending units to simply wipe out the invading stack.

[Magic Science]

Can we get an overview pic of your lands please? And thank you for the updates.

Roger roger.
Turn 146.
You're welcome. .
   

[Qgqqqqq]

That wouldnt work, MS. Attacking always uses one move, and WE only have 1 move.

[Magic Science]

That wouldnt work, MS. Attacking always uses one move, and WE only have 1 move.

You are correct that it would not work. Thank you.

I just went and tested this behavior. I found that attacking always consumes 1 move, like you said, even if you are attacking from your own road to your own road in your own culture, UNLESS the attack destroys the last enemy unit occupying the tile, so your victorious unit can occupy the tile.

What I mean is, the normal rule is that attacking consumes 1 move, but that rule doesn't apply in the special case that the attacking unit is clear to move to the tile formerly occupied by the unit it was attacking. In that case, only the normal amount of move is consumed, which could be less than 1 in your own culture over your own road.

Another way to say it is "1 move consumed is the default amount for an attack that does not actually cause the unit to move, because another enemy unit is still occupying the destination tile afterward. Otherwise, normal movement rules apply".

So you were still right in the end.

[Magic Science]

Turn 141 to Turn 146 – 620 AD to 720 AD
Part 1
   
Turn 141.
Naufragar offered a Peace Treaty.
I spied with my little eye, a stack of 7 units advancing on Ban.
Rejected.


   
The maximum number of dots is 7. Right. .
In fact, there were 10 Catapults, 6 Axemen, 3 Spearmen, 1 Chariot, and 1 Crossbowman advancing on Ban. This army could reach Ban on the first half of Turn 143, so I had 2 turns warning.

This seemed terrible at first, but in fact Ban was perfectly safe from this stack. With 2 turns of warning, I could stack at least 11 defenders in Ban, and Naufragar only has 10 hitters. Then on the 3rd turn, my main army could arrive and annihilate his stack, saving Ban.
But the thing is, Ban was already safe, probably. Naufragar already offered me a Peace Treaty. I could just offer him a Peace Treaty back. What would I gain by saving Ban my other way? The answer: nothing but a continued state of war with Naufragar. And I doubted that was worth much.
Me and Naufragar were stalemated. Neither could make profitable progress against Gin-guelito. I knew that would happen, and I planned for it to happen, but I hoped it would not happen so soon, before I could capture Joker and settle Replacement Bibracte. But it did.
Saving Ban my warlike way would not break the stalemate. Naufragar’s stack would see mine coming, so it would safely retreat, and we would be back where we started on Turn 140. So, I glumly accepted defeat and offered him a Peace Treaty back, which he accepted on Turn 142. Naufragar would earn 6 Celtic cities, and I, with my equal or greater army, would capture only 2 (Da and Replacement Bibracte. Despite my worry, Naufragar was unlikely to do anything tricky to steal that spot). How did it all go so wrong? The loss of Bolan was pretty bad (Naufragar lost his 5th city too, but he resettled it in the exact same place, so he didn't lost as much output, and he didn't lose any territory vs. Gin-guelito). After that, I should have spied on Joker sooner. Maybe I should have not have prompted Naufragar by declaring war so soon, or instead declared war on him even sooner and offered a Peace Treaty right away, like Turn 132? Then I could safely capture Joker and Bibracte, but then my binding peace with him would end shortly after Gin-guelito’s. Maybe I could have planned to attack Joker first all along, rather than split my forces? I don’t know. .

Anyway, I did move my main army away from Joker towards Ban, just in case. This delayed the attack on Joker by 2 turns.
I considered attacking Tortuga and Cathy Ames instead, but I just didn’t think it would work. Naufragar’s attacking stack could quickly retreat to Tortuga. Joker was still in the way of Cathy Ames. One way or another, the stalemate would probably continue. And Ban is a valuable city to risk like that.
However, I think in hindsight as I type this report that there may have been another way. I could have moved my main army back towards Ban without revealing it to him. I think the insistence in my planning of revealing it to him was a relic of the early minutes of my Turn 141, when I thought I could only save Ban on Turn 143 by threat of retaliation, not by stacking just enough defenders against his hitters. If my main army was unseen, Naufragar might not have retreated, and he would have been destroyed, and that could have broken the stalemate in my favor. Maybe?

Also, I sent in my suicidal Scouts into Celtia this turn, just as I would have if I got to attack Joker as planned. The Eastern one saw a fearsome number of units 1SE of Joker, and survived. The Western one saw nothing interesting, and died.


   
Turn 143.
Gin-guelito offered Joker and a Peace Treaty. A Peace Treaty would give them the chance to steal Replacement Bibracte, and it would deny me any chance of victory in the race to Iago. Rejected.


   
Then, my army advanced to take Joker my force, 2 turns late.
1 Ballista Elephant stayed 1 tile behind to block any Chariot shenanigans over the uncultured road towards Bie. In hindsight, this was probably unnecessary.
And 1 Chariot and 1 Catapults were 1 turn behind because they were produced too late.

   
Turn 144.
A fearsome number of Celtic units piled into Joker.

THE GLORIOUS ARMY OF THE CAMBODIAN NUMERAL SYSTEM, at Joker assembled: 10 Crossbowmen, 3 Ballista Elephants, 3 Horse Archers, 7 Catapults, 6 Axemen, and 6 Chariots. Also 1 Great General and 2 Workers.
THE PRIMITIVE ARMY OF THE CELTIC EMPIRE, at Joker assembled: 3 Archers, 17 Axemen, 3 Spearmen, and 2 Chariots. Also 1 Great General and 1 Horse Archer.
This was it. There were no more reinforcements for either of us.

I did not expect them to defend Joker so strongly. I lost my nerve and spent the turn bombarding the defenses.

But then…

[Magic Science]

Turn 141 to Turn 146 – 620 AD to 720 AD
Part 2
   
Turn 145
The Battle of Joker
I thought about bombarding for another turn. I performed no simulations. I worried my intuition, which was that I would win this battle just fine, was wrong. Believe it or not, I had never before done the simple Pitboss thing of attacking a weaker player, crushing their outdated army with collateral damage, and capturing their cities. This was the first time I was on this side of this kind of war. Unless I have forgotten even more about Pitboss 45 than I thought. .

Anyway, then I pulled myself together and attacked Joker. . The one Accuracy Catapult bombarded one last time, and the other 6 Barrage II Catapults suicidally attacked, as usual.
After that, everything was fine. I spent some time thinking about what units to promote at what time, and what units to attack with at what time, but none of it mattered much, I think. I lost 1 BE to kill the 3 Spearmen, and I lost 1 HA to kill the 3 Archers, but no other units to slaughter all the 17 Axemen.

   
In the end, Joker barely held out with 1 wounded Spearman. The 1 Great General and 2 Workers in Joker survived too.

I wonder, why did Gin-guelito try to defend Joker like this? Why not retreat to defend Iago? Though little did they know, after Turn 143, retreat was futile, since I had Engineering to chase them down. Though now that I type this, they could have tried retreating through Naufragar’s culture. .
I wonder, why did Gin-guelito did not use their Great General? Why leave him in the city, then?

I worried that Naufragar would poach Joker with 1 measly 2-mover, but I doubted he would be so outrageously greedy, and he was not.


   
Turn 146.
Joker was empty when I logged in.
I captured it with a Catapult, and kept it.
Then I finally promoted a Chariot to Sentry, and sent him ahead over the cleared roads to see what was going on. Naufragar had finally declared war, after all. What was he waiting for since Turn 142? For me to do the rest of the work so he could reap the rest of the rewards? .

There was 1 Spearman (fleeing Joker) and 1 Axemen 2SE of Joker.
There was 1 Chariot, 1 Great General, and 2 Workers 3SE of Joker.
There was 1 Archer, 1 Horse Archer, 1 Axemen, and 1 Warrior in Iago.
Also, I suspected Naufragar’s main army was 2SE of Cathy Ames. It could reach Iago on the first half of Turn 149. Mine could reach Iago on the second half of Turn 149, and mine would still be wounded and lacking Catapults.

I thought about leaving this whole situation alone.
I could kill the Spearman/Axemen pair and the Chariot/Civilian stack, but why should I? Why should I do even more of Naufragar’s work for him? Well, at this point, killing those units didn’t really count as work for either of us, even if they made it to Iago. It was more like free experience, so I should take the free experience. Also, Iago was poorly defended, and I thought my 2-movers had a chance of winning the race to capture it, but it would be less poorly defended if those 3 units were involved.


   
I destroyed the Axeman/Spearman pair with 2 relatively healthy Crossbowmen.
I destroyed the Chariot/Civilian stack with a relatively healthy Horse Archer. Cao Cao was killed! As I type this, I realize he could have been 1 tile south of that, and safe. That must have been a mistake.
Then I moved 7 more 2-movers in range of Iago, including the Sentry Chariot, which confirmed what I suspected about Naufragar’s main army. So, I have 2 Horse Archers and 6 Chariots, all wounded but well-promoted, against the 4 healthy and somewhat-promoted defenders of Iago on a hill with 3rd-ring. They can attack on the second half of Turn 147. I played with Cyneheard’s Combat Calculator after the turn, and I think my chance of success here is low, even if no reinforcements arrive. Reinforcements will stop me for sure. But Gin-guelito might prefer to flee. And I have time to heal with my Medic I Chariot for 1 turn and still beat Naufragar in the race. His main army has only 1 2-mover, his Sentry Chariot.

Meanwhile, I decided not to bother racing to Iago with my main army. There is no chance that Naufragar fails to take it on his first try.
The healthier 1-movers dispersed to pillage around Joker before Naufragar’s culture expands. The Hamlet/Cottage gold was nice, but really I wanted to remove the roads. I will do the same to the Plains Hill Mines and their roads. They will be replaced with Windmills anyway.
The rest of the army piled into Joker to heal. Everyone will be fully healed in time for Turn 152, when the Peace Treaty expires. I do not know what will happen then.

And the Settler for Replacement Bibracte, “Da-Mei” moved into position on the Jungle, along with half the defenders of Da. Fort Ivory might be obsolete now, but I think I should wait a little while before replacing it, just in case. It will be replaced with a Farm, not a Camp, I think, to bring irrigation to Replacement Bibracte.
It was a cool map feature while it lasted. . Thank you, RefSteel, for telling me that Forts can be built without chopping down Forests/Jungles.