Horselover Fat's journal - Iskender and the Hippus

[Iskender]

Had a chat with Pocketbeetle. I'll just summarise it:

He hints that Bob might break NAP as soon as the cease fire ends. I don't think it's going to happen, but I'll have some archers ready until then anyway.

Guess what? PB is my northern neigbor! Actually, that sucks. Who am I going to harass now? I guess I'll play a happy builder for a while.

[Iskender]

I these desperate times Hippus have to resort to some creative means of generating income:



Nice. I'll get Festivals one turn earlier.

However, the RNG giveth, the RNG taketh away. A combat I warrior sent on a quest to earn his second promotion on a skeleton died at 75% odds. His brave Guerilla sidekick promptly mopped up the mess and is now standing on a barrow next to Calabim border.

I'm actually doing quite good at least commerce-wise. The task for the next dozen turns is to carpet the land with farms while getting Masonry and Construction.

[Iskender]

City #5 founded:



Behold! I've learned how to use the tech-known-by-others discount to sniff out what techs have been discovered. Now I know that:

- Calabim are the only civ that has Bronze Working
- only Illians have Philosophy
- two civs have Hunting. One of them are Svartalfar
- one civ has discovered Knowledge of the Ether
- only one civ has Masonry
- noone has Sailing nor Writing
(- the man who smokes cigars has a neigbour who doesn't have a dog )

KotE and Hunting are classical techs and only Pocketbeetle's and Selrahc's score has increased by 22+ points recently so my guess is that PB researched Hunting in attempt to grab FoL holy city and Selrahc has KotE for Ice I adepts. Or: PB has both Hunting and KotE and Selrahc has Construction/HR and is building catapults/horsemen to come and get me. Or PB is building catapults/centaurs to come and get me (there's a dramatic increase in his power graph). Doh! I hate increases in power graph (unless the graph is green).

Just in case, Radonnor (the desert city, now in the middle of the empire) is building an Archery Range that can be emergency chopped and warriors upgraded to archers. Other cities are in happy-builder mode, markets being the recent fad.

[Ilios]

Gotta love those cheap Markets...

You've done well climbing out of the hole you were in Iskender, keep up the good work.

Here's hoping for a free FoL spread!

[Maksim]

That's some impressive C&D work there!

Your research rate is quite impressive there - does most of it come from the capital at the moment?

You seem to have a dotmap in mind, judging by the notes on the latest screenshot - where are you planning to place your future cities, and when?

Finally, here's a sketch of what life might look like in Hippus lands:

Rowanna, the first lady of the Hippus clans, was walking along at a brisk pace through her palace, followed by an entourage of elderly bearded men, wheezing and gasping for breath as they tried to keep up with her. Her prince was inspecting the outlying settlements - an activity that took the best part of each year, and in his absence, she tried to keep a semblance of order in the capital.

She stopped in front of a large window overlooking the courtyard, allowing the courtiers to catch up and address her.

- You. First.
- My lady, we have received knotwork from the prince. He says that things are going well, and the work on the elephant in the east is proceeding apace.
- ... The elephant?
- Well, the knotwork is fraying at this bit here. We think it means an elephant.
- Could it be the monument or the market instead?
- Eh... Uhmm...

Rowanna shook her head and wondered, not for the first time, whether the selection criteria for members of elder councils (must have gray hair and a beard) were too lenient.

Her attraction was momentarily distracted by the crowd in the courtyard below, shouting "WAARGH!" and shaking their clubs every few minutes. The prince sent out his warcry several months ago, so a lot of warriors gathered here - with the war over before they began, they refused to go back home until they got all their shouting done. On the bright side, every few days another warrior got a sore throat and came to their senses. Eventually, Rowanna hoped, they'd all be gone and then she'd finally get some sleep.

Her train of thought interrupted by polite coughing (or was it one of the elders shaking off the mortal coil?), she remembered why she brought them to this little-used section of the palace, and swung open the large wooden doors to a grand room with mystical sigils inscribed on its walls.

The room's sole occupant was four-legged, golden-maned and had a rather blank look in its eyes. It was currently chewing on a bale of hay. Rowanna looked up its name in the old books (her being one of a few dozen people who knew how to read) - the creature was known as a horse.

- Right. What is it, and what is it doing here?
- Well, Your Majesty, you see... When we built our palace according to ancient traditions, we set up three chambers to channel the magical energy of the universe. In one chamber, we have been granted the mana of Air, in another - the mana of Nature.
- And in this one someone decided to house a pet?
- We are not quite sure, Your Majesty. Your predecessors had... ah... eccentric tastes.
- Well, can we use it for anything? Can it fight?

The elders huddle among themselves, trying to remember.

- Your Majesty, it kicked the page once, but we believe it was unintentional.
- Well, what if we put a man on it? Can our warriors learn to ride it? Can it help us when we go to war?

The elders huddle once more, then the most senior expert on military matters comes up, speaking with a voice of authority:

- Nah, that would never work.

[TheBagelProblem]

I was really waiting for this, a "story" post in the Hippus thread, great work Maksim

[Iskender]

- Well, what if we put a man on it? Can our warriors learn to ride it? Can it help us when we go to war?

The elders huddle once more, then the most senior expert on military matters comes up, speaking with a voice of authority:

- Nah, that would never work.

Quoted for truth.

We strive to find a use for the horse, testing a plethora of ideas. The only relative success was a centaur, but it was promptly sent away to Cardith Lorda who seem to collect such oddities.

Most of the research comes from the capital, right now it's working 3 river farms, 2 river cottages, a farm and a cottage. With academy it's beaker output is in 60-70 range on 100% science. My original settlement plan was demolished by the NAP with Dave/Bob and also by jungle growing over the gems up north. If everything goes fine I'll settle the next city south-east of #5 (the 'city?' spot in the screenshot) in about 12 turns. Then the 'blue' spot - a coastal city grabbing Clam and Cows, and later on the spot near the gems (should have Construction by then).

[Iskender]

Had a chat with Bob. If you don't enjoy reading walls of text here's the summary:

Dave found out that if a barrow is surrounded with units any result that involves spawning creatures fizzles somehow. They want to explore the barrow between our borders and split the outcome. I'm not interested in that and insted propose that I let them pop the barrow in exchange for settling rights in my east. A rough version of the border with the blue line indicating how far east I am allowed to settle:




And the conversation:

18:00
bobchillingworth: hey, what's up? If you have a sec, I have a question for you about the FFH PBEM
18:04
ja: hi

shoot
18:05
bobchillingworth: k. Dave figured out a way to open lairs so that nothing bad will spawn- you just have to surround them completely with units before trying to open them. I'd like him to do that with the barrow between your and my empires, but apparently our peace deal forbids either of us from exploring it. So, uh, I was wondering whether we could open it, and if the result is gold or something that can be split, you'd get part of it as thanks
18:06
alternatively, if the result is a non-event, like "a portal to a new area", then you can take the next crack at it
18:07
sorry did you get that? I just got an error message that you're offline

ja: my connection is acting weird at the moment, but i think i got it all
18:08
bobchillingworth: Okay, last line was "alternatively, if the result is a non-event, like "a portal to a new area", then you can take the next crack at it"
18:09
ja: a nice trick. does it entirely eliminate bad events from the pool?

bobchillingworth: I'm not sure

we've only done it once so far, to the dungeon north of whatever my copper city is called

and got a healing salve

yay
18:10
ja: but did you test it in worldbuilder?
18:11
bobchillingworth: I'm afraid not, I think a lurker had commented a while ago that it worked, and then Dave confirmed it in-game

it might still give bad-result text, but nothing can spawn because all the tiles are blocked. If that happened, you could take the next whack at it, and we could just go back and forth until someone gets something decent
18:12
and I guess the exploring unit can still get plauged or withered

I would test it myself, but I don't even have the access to FFH anymore, which is why Dave is now playing the turns
18:13
but I trust that it works
18:14
ja: i think this sharing of dungeon's benefits wouldn't work. i have a different proposal
18:15
i'll let you explore it any way you see fit, but in return i'll get a bit more land on my east. as you can see with your scout i'm quite squeezed over there
18:16
bobchillingworth: Hmm. I can ask Dave, but I don't think that will work
18:17
with the terms of the peace proposal though, I guess there might be a gulf of land between us that neither can settle

that's a seperate issue that I think needs to be worked out via mutual dot-mapping

ja: yes, and this is a waste

bobchillingworth: I agree
18:18
but I think it's a seperate issue- and I don't want to tie it to lair exploring
18:19
if you don't want to have cooperative exploration of the barrow, that's fine- I'll leave it alone
18:20
lots of other lairs

ja: it is a good idea but i think sharing the results wouldn't work out. what if you get a great prophet or an acolyte?
18:22
i think giving a few tiles for the right to open it is a good offer

bobchillingworth: yeah, I mean I guess with an acolyte I could agree to spread the Order or whatever to you eventually, but obviously no real way to split a prophet. I guess it's balanced out in my mind since I could just as likely have my unit "never return from the depths of the lair" and then it's your turn

ja: but still, if negative effects are nullified, it's EV+, to use poker terms
18:23
bobchillingworth: True. What if I have Dave do some testing, to see whether you can still get the bad result text?

ja: all right. i'll do some myself as well

bobchillingworth: that would mean that there's a greater than 50% chance I think that I either get a neutral result, a result that can be split, or one where you get to take the next turn
18:24
if that makes sense
18:25
so would it be okay for us to explore if you can get bad result text, with the arrangement that you get the next whack if I don't get a good result (and I'll split gold if that's what comes out of it)?

and if you can only get good results, then we'll just leave it alone for now
18:27
ja: to be honest i'm not really interested in opening lairs at the moment. i'd rather see that river between us being settled
18:28
bobchillingworth: those are two different issues tho

I agree that that land needs to be used

but I don't want to do a "barrow for land" trade, because there's a really good chance that I won't get anything worthwhile from the lair
18:29
ja: so you will need to weigh how many tiles it is worth

bobchillingworth: this is one area where having access to the game would help... I'm not sure just how much land is being wasted right now
18:30
I don't suppose you could email me / Dave a screen cap showing the present no-man's land, annotated with the land you'd like us to allow you to settle?

ja: on my side, i could squeeze a nice city
18:32
i can give a rough estimate - i could settle the line north of my easternmost city and no further east
18:34
bobchillingworth: yeah send a screencap, but I make no promises
18:35
ja: ok
18:36
bobchillingworth: as for the barrow, I'll leave it be for now, just let me know whenever if you do want to explore it

there's way too many bloodpets standing around at the moment with nothing to do, so it's pretty trivial to surround these things

being able to build 1-turn bloodpets in every city with Governor's mansions seems cool until you realize that there's nothing to do with them
18:37
once you have peace with everyone
18:40
I'm guessing you're going to want to keep it to yourself, but I suppose you might be declaring on PB soon?

ja: i've made a screencap

sending it
18:41
bobchillingworth: he's a pretty obvious target, and I don't know why else you used the worldspell

he has low power, and can only make 3 units max a turn

easy to pillage if nothing else

anyway, if you are, good luck

would be nice for someone to slow him down

his beakers per turn is scary
18:42
he's way too far away for me to do anything right now

at least without vamps

ja: it would. but i'm just a #4

and vs. centaurs i would not pillage much
18:43
bobchillingworth: Yeah true

Tasunke would be a lot better for that anyway

ja: Financial isn't that bad either
18:44
bobchillingworth: yeah it's okay, just raiders and aggressive works a little better with the quicker horses

ja: btw. it's 4 units now. he's got 4th city

and a settlement

bobchillingworth: hah finally
18:45
k

yeah if I where him I'd start spamming settlements

so with the image you sent me, blue line represents where you want to divide land for settling?
18:46
like, I can only settle on the right side, you on the left?

so with the image you sent me, blue line represents where you want to divide land for settling?
like, I can only settle on the right side, you on the left?
18:48
ja: no. it's more where i can settle. now you draw the line for yourselves
18:50
bobchillingworth: where you want to or where you already can?

I don't think you have a city that far east

so I assume it's the former?
18:51
ja: no, the line is 1 tile east of Feiss Mabdon

the south-east city

yes it's the former
18:52
bobchillingworth: okay well I'll take it to dave and see what he thinks, because like I said it makes no sense for tile to be wasted between us
18:53
when he made the peace terms, I don't think he realized that it meant wasted tiles

ja: i didn't as wel
18:55
all right, so i'm waiting for your and Dave's response

cheers

[Iskender]

An update on negotiations with Calabim regarding my settling a city and their opening the barrow. I got this letter from Dave:

Hi,

Bob relayed some of your chat with him, asking about a waiver on the clause in our treaty forbidding you to settle to your east.

Let me put my cards on the table. I see the players as having separated into three tiers: Selrahc and Pocketbeetle are doing the best, you and I are in the middle, and Cull and Sareln are scraping along at the bottom. I thought you were going to use your worldspell to take out Pocketbeetle (full disclosure: I warned him about this), but that looks less and less likely as time goes by and your Warcry promotions wear off. Maybe it makes sense for you and I to cooperate as we try to bring ourselves back into the game.

As you said to Bob, my scouting has shown that your only direction for expansion is to your east. The "no man's land" between us is narrow, though, and it would be a tight squeeze to put cities in there. I don't want to get into a culture war for tiles. In the chat, you offered the barrow as compensation for letting you settle there; I see that as insufficient. The barrow could give something really good (like an adventurer ), or something bad. I'd be more interested in trading for one of your ales. I should have an extra gold in about 10 turns.

I have some room to my east, so losing that land is not a big deal for me. Letting you settle to the east weakens me defensively, though. You would be putting down a third ring of cities, while I would be stuck with only a second ring, which would be quite exposed to attack by fast units.

As I said, I think it would benefit both of us to work together. I hope you can address some of my concerns; do you have concrete proposals on where you want to settle?

Dave

And my reply:

Hi there

First, thanks for including me in the league with Pocketbeetle, Selrahc and yourself, I feel flattered. My view is quite different - I see PB as a runaway, Selrahc and you guys as runners-up and me trying to catch up with the rest.

I think that, all things considered, the NAP between us was a good idea. It is a pity that it was signed under such dire circumstances. In the conversation with Bob I'd tried to establish some kind of a framework for settling cities in the "demarcation" area, but I agree that it would be better do discuss this on a case-by-case basis.

Having this in mind let me offer the following: I would like to settle a city on the grassland hill two tiles west of the barrow you want to explore. This city would be five tiles away from Acaia, the same distance that already separates Acaia from my south-east city of Feiss Mabdon, so your defensive position would not be weakened to any significant degree. In return I will let you explore the barrow in any manner you see fit, and if the result is negative (ie. a harmful promotion or death of the explorer) I'll give you Wine for 10 turns as a compensation (Ale is out of stock for a moment).

Iskender

In brief: I'm still haggling for the rights to settle a city in the east and now put Wine on the counter. It surely looks like as if I wanted that city badly and indeed I do! This is one of the two yet unsettled riverside spots with that is not covered with jungle.


Now let's contemplate the five cities of the Green Empire:


The capital is about to finish the first market. Yay! Next item on the agenda is a worker.


I need to finish this settler in Corond Mor. It's been decaying for several turns already.


Four items in the queue. Says how good I am at following my plans.


The future Heroic Epic city. The place of residence of TheArchduke, Rowain and Comillo.


And finally a backwater that hopefully will eventually become the number one coastal city.

[Ilios]

Thanks for the overview!

Could you post a screenie of the site you're discussing with the Calabim?

Still no horsies huh?