[SPOILERS - PBEM16] Krill - Tokugawa of Rome

[Krill]

Thats a thing no mapcreator can avoid. In any landbased map an early agreement to choke one opponent gives the victim little chance.

How could the mapmaker have prevented your killing of Korea in PB3?

They couldn't and that was a bad map. Ask any of the players and they'll say that it wasn't a fun game because of high maintenence, difficulty to defend (I just about managed it when rigging every single alliance) and some will say bad resource distributions.

TBH, I've said before that I don;t like any of the maps Sullla has made for MP games. The only thing PB1 had going for it was the strategic usage of choke points but counterbalanced it with screens of land with no resources for some players and then gave others swathes of resource laden grasdland.

[plako]

I don't quite follow Krill's comment either. If players are close enough to Praet rush, they will be also close enough to choke with warriors.

I'm not saying it is the case here, but I usually to make maps so that normal Worker-warrior start won't get you killed. However there still are playes starting with 2*worker and there is nothing that could be done to prevent them getting killed, if someone comes knocking.

[Krill]

I'm not talking about 1 player warrior rushing, I'm talking about when multiple players warrior rush one player. If you go worker>worker then yes you deserve what you get.

[Krill]

Met scooter and mh. Sent generic greetings to both.



Dazed chose unwisely. I should have good odds taking out that warrior if it moves to the northern forest with 2 warriors, and if he moves SE then I'm going to push him out of my land.

[Ilios]

Dazed chose unwisely. I should have good odds taking out that warrior if it moves to the northern forest with 2 warriors, and if he moves SE then I'm going to push him out of my land.

I don't quite follow you here.

[Krill]

Next turn Dazed can move his warrior 7 or 3. If he moves 7 to the forest, I move the warrior in the cap to the grass hill and the southern warrior to cover the capital. The turn after I have around 75% odds to end the choke. If Dazed moves 3 to head towards the rice that he can't see, I can move my warriors to the hill he just vacated (or onto the forest hill) and onto the rice. He will not have good odds on flatland against me because I'm AGG.

Actually, he has a third option, which is fortifiy on the hill but that's actually the same as moving the forest as far as the odds are concerned. So...he has about nothing better than 25% odds to still be ineffectively choking me in 2 turns time. The rest of the time that warrior is dead.

[Ilios]

Haha, now I understand your first sentence.

I'm gathering the 75% odds you mentioned are not the actual odds of the first C1 Warrior to kill the Dazed Warrior in a forest, but the odds of both of your Warriors killing the invader on that specific tile?

Your second Warrior will move accross the river, no?

[Krill]

No, the current warrior in the capital would move 7 onto the grass hill that is next to the pigs, so I'd not be moving over a river. You are correct that those odds are for 2 warriors.

[Rowain]

I'm not talking about 1 player warrior rushing, I'm talking about when multiple players warrior rush one player.

But how can the mapmaker prevent this? I'm not talking about how good or bad the map in PB3 was in general. Clearly the map there was not bad because you could eliminate Korea early?
An early choke or rush can happen if there is some connection between players. Equally an early coordinated attack between players can happen too and there is no way the mapmaker can prevent this.

Perhaps you can enlighten us by explaining how as a mapmaker you would have prevented the early demise of Mortius in PB2 or Korea in PB3. Or how in generall you would create a map that makes it impossible for players to choke an opponent.

[plako]

Preventing early warrior kills is pretty simple in quick speed. Just give plains hill start and forested plains hill and 2T warrior keeps you safe in most scenarios. You can also consider line of sight so that there is 3T to build the warrior. However I prefer to give people more than 1 settling option and I don't like always giving everyone plains hill start. Putting a warrior far enough to enable building 1 worker could be used also.