EitB 0009 Wishlist

[Gaspar]

I'd like to nerf the clan worldspell for MP if possible. There's at least 4 games here where the clan worldspell made a HUGE impact on the outcome. Given they have plenty of other strengths as well (great uniques, warrens) I think its too much. Perhaps you could flag so it caps at X number of units if MP? (Given what you said about Hybie's WS I assume this is possible.)

I also think Hyborem's Whisper would be like Stasis in MP. How unfun would that be? I don't disagree he should have something, but we might need to tweak it.

[Bobchillingworth]

Hybie's WS is supposed to be part of the risk of summoning him, though. Lots of the neat Veil goodies come with "deal-with-the-devil" type downsides, although they're often so easy to get around that they might as well not be there. Diseased Corpses are diseased (!), Ritualists get -25% strength, Beasts screw up your cities for a few turns, Eidolons raise the AC, etc.


So Hyborem can, and often will, start immediately building the Grimoire upon spawning, take Malevolent Designs, and then take one of your cities. This happens regularly in SP, if you tech the Infernal Pact and then take too long in building the Grimoire for yourself.



Besides, having Hyborem be able to take just one city surely isn't as unfun as all but one players being unable to do anything but move troops for a dozen or more turns.

[Ichabod]

I'd like to nerf the clan worldspell for MP if possible. There's at least 4 games here where the clan worldspell made a HUGE impact on the outcome. Given they have plenty of other strengths as well (great uniques, warrens) I think its too much. Perhaps you could flag so it caps at X number of units if MP? (Given what you said about Hybie's WS I assume this is possible.)

I also think Hyborem's Whisper would be like Stasis in MP. How unfun would that be? I don't disagree he should have something, but we might need to tweak it.

Agree. Like I said before, 4/6 archers are too much (I'm not even talking about Sons here). Goblin archers shouldn't even be 3/5, they should be like the barb city orcs archers, 2/4. The clan is already extremely good even without those uber archers...

[Sareln]

I'd like to nerf the clan worldspell for MP if possible. There's at least 4 games here where the clan worldspell made a HUGE impact on the outcome. Given they have plenty of other strengths as well (great uniques, warrens) I think its too much. Perhaps you could flag so it caps at X number of units if MP? (Given what you said about Hybie's WS I assume this is possible.)

I also think Hyborem's Whisper would be like Stasis in MP. How unfun would that be? I don't disagree he should have something, but we might need to tweak it.

Hybie's WS is supposed to be part of the risk of summoning him, though. Lots of the neat Veil goodies come with "deal-with-the-devil" type downsides, although they're often so easy to get around that they might as well not be there. Diseased Corpses are diseased (!), Ritualists get -25% strength, Beasts screw up your cities for a few turns, Eidolons raise the AC, etc.

So Hyborem can, and often will, start immediately building the Grimoire upon spawning, take Malevolent Designs, and then take one of your cities. This happens regularly in SP, if you tech the Infernal Pact and then take too long in building the Grimoire for yourself.

Besides, having Hyborem be able to take just one city surely isn't as unfun as all but one players being unable to do anything but move troops for a dozen or more turns.

It'd probably be best if things worked the same way in MP as in SP, so maybe tie the Clan WS to a tech (Bronzeworking perhaps?) or something similar enable whispers? The worry for whispers is that is would be unfun in MP b/c you'd lose a city and you couldn't do anything about it. Is that true though?

[Bobchillingworth]

But you can do something about Hyborem's WS, to not lose any cities- Inquisition or Purge away the Veil from any city you aren't willing to risk losing. It's a painful solution, but an almost perfectly effective one if you are willing to make the sacrifice.

[Selrahc]

I also think Hyborem's Whisper would be like Stasis in MP. How unfun would that be? I don't disagree he should have something, but we might need to tweak it.

Hyborems Whisper does not work against humans you are at war with. The city stays occupied, and is immediately retaken at end of turn. I tested that out in a hotseat game for PBEM VI, since I'd heard that it was broken. As it transpired in the actual game I used the Whisper to grab the Lanun AI's double OO/AV holy city with shrines, and as a launchpad to conquering the southern coasts quickly, so it didn't prove relevant. Would have been a real kick in the teeth for me if I'd gone in blind and tried to steal a city from Ichabod or Dantski.

So the "counter" to Hyborem's Whisper in MP is to be at war with Hyborem... *Not* a terribly scary spell.

[Sareln]

Hyborems Whisper does not work against humans you are at war with. The city stays occupied, and is immediately retaken at end of turn. I tested that out in a hotseat game for PBEM VI, since I'd heard that it was broken. As it transpired in the actual game I used the Whisper to grab the Lanun AI's double OO/AV holy city with shrines, and as a launchpad to conquering the southern coasts quickly, so it didn't prove relevant. Would have been a real kick in the teeth for me if I'd gone in blind and tried to steal a city from Ichabod or Dantski.

So the "counter" to Hyborem's Whisper in MP is to be at war with Hyborem... *Not* a terribly scary spell.

The city is conquered at least once so all the buildings have to roll to not die yes?

[Amelia]

So your WS is to destroy some buildings in one city? It might as well not be a WS at all..

[Selrahc]

The city is conquered at least once so all the buildings have to roll to not die yes?

Yes.
And the spell can be used to poach cities from anybody you aren't at war with, or any AI.
So, it is useful.

But the discussion about how "Overpowered and unfun!" it is seems to be going with a false impression of what the spell does in MP.

[Sareln]

Names for the Esus Versions of Spells?

Blur -> Steward's Shield
Shadowalk -> Steward's Path
Haste -> Steward's Walk
Poisoned Blades -> Steward's Strength
Regeneration -> Steward's Will

Someone give me better names please?