WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Ryan]

And Bigger wasnt? I did a proper argument and he responds to me like that? Like im an idiot?

[BRickAstley]

It would be nice to hear from mattimeo and ichabod before i do.

Anyone else you would consider dueling?

[Meiz]

Brick, do you have some innocent reads from Matt?

[BRickAstley]

Not really, no. In fact, I really like the case that Pindicator built, and I would rather have Matt be Gazglum's duel partner than Ichabod. I was just wanting to hear some more from Gazglum, since around now is when he said he would be coming to initiate the duel.

[Bigger]

Gaz, please duel Ichabod so we can put this behind and I can move onto another target (I haven't forgotten about Molach, still think he's scummy, but Ichabod is higher priority). we will actually be able to get plenty of info on other players from his death as well.

Brick looks bad and I have to review him, stop slacking of on it. Bigger is just misguided, I think. He should stop giving advices everytime he talks to someone and listen a bit to the advices we give him: "I'm innocent, fairy girl!"

So.... you're a role-pm seer now?

WATCH OUT TOWN! ICHABOD

[Bigger]

Not really, no. In fact, I really like the case that Pindicator built, and I would rather have Matt be Gazglum's duel partner than Ichabod. I was just wanting to hear some more from Gazglum, since around now is when he said he would be coming to initiate the duel.

Can someone please explain a case on Matt that isn't "he is acting like X," where X = the way he's acted in every single game he's played

[Ichabod]

Not really, no. In fact, I really like the case that Pindicator built, and I would rather have Matt be Gazglum's duel partner than Ichabod. I was just wanting to hear some more from Gazglum, since around now is when he said he would be coming to initiate the duel.

Can someone please explain a case on Matt that isn't "he is acting like X," where X = the way he's acted in every single game he's played

Aren't you forgetting something, here, Bigger?

[BRickAstley]

Not really, no. In fact, I really like the case that Pindicator built, and I would rather have Matt be Gazglum's duel partner than Ichabod. I was just wanting to hear some more from Gazglum, since around now is when he said he would be coming to initiate the duel.

Can someone please explain a case on Matt that isn't "he is acting like X," where X = the way he's acted in every single game he's played

Aren't you forgetting something, here, Bigger?

The fact that Bigger always acts the same, reckless and emotional! Right?

[pindicator]

WW20 - Day 3: Post 4

Matt, thank you for answering.

pindicator:

flug vote - placed, stating an explanation is desired, midday Sun. Monday morning, get up before the lynch to find none has been forthcoming, so state my intention of keeping my vote in place. Really not sure how this is being construed as overtly suspicious behaviour...

What's suspicious is you don't even speak of it again. You don't seem interested in trying to decide if flug is innocent or guilty much like you didn't follow up on your earlier suspicion of Azza. To me that reads like you just want somewhere safe to put your vote. I mean you were around and posting, but it's all jokes and spam.

Hadn't actually realised Gaspar raised such a point 'til you highlighted it. Interpret that how you will.

If this is new info for you, how does that make you feel now about that meta theory?

How was my Molach vote based on character in any way? Molach and flug had a publicly claimed (and effectively proven) neighbour link, and Jkaen had all but claimed some variety of role-based connection to Ichabod. The moment Jkaen revealed his connection to Ichabod was primarily assumption on his part, my entire meta-based case, which basically relied on there being two reasonably strong connected pairs, fell apart, so I promptly removed the vote based on it.

I actually suspect Ichabod & Jkaen are connected somehow - see how Ichabod trusts jkaen despite the holes in jkaen's reveal and how ichabod attacks my PR but doesn't want to go near jkaen's. But your argument was that one of the four had to be scum, and i don't follow how you unvote molach because jkaen revealed he didn't know his alignment.

Doubly unsure how saying Molach is not playing in a way that would be productive for a wolf counts as casting suspicion on him. That was actually intended to convey a slight town lean on him, which I felt was a necessary foil to the fact I'd voted him earlier in the day.

Fair point. I took this as you keeping suspicion on molach yet not wanting to vote him, but i can see it as being as you say.

Bringing up the fact no-one came up with any crazy conspiracy theories surrounding the fact I'd voted someone, then almost immediately jumped off again, was a snide jab at the even crazier theories that people had been bringing up as if they were remotely reasonable throughout the day. Such as two wolves teaming up to point out and publicly execute a third wolf. I mean, seriously. That's fucking insane.

True, it's a bit tin-foil hat, but as i said before i wouldn't dig at Meiz unless you wereat scum too. But now seeing Meiz was also targeted last night, i'm going to throw that line of thinking away.

I still need you to answer the most important question i asked: Who do you suspect and why?


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This is a good post, Pindicator. But, it's not unheard of villagers voting to save other villagers (i.e. you vote for player B not because he's suspicious, but because player A is not). I agree that Mattimeo is pretty dodgy, but, especially after Serdoa's claim, the Meiz - Mattimeo link can't be considered as a tell.

Do you think your case stands outside of this? I'm going to review Mattimeo's post later today.

I think Mattimeo needs to be more engaged and forthcoming if he's village. His last post was a good start, but he didn't answer the most important question I asked him.

Didn't understand the question you made for me. Can you be more specific?

I meant just to get your impressions. I would hope to hear something on the discussion on mattimeo, and meiz's explanation for his voting - although after serdoa's reveal i just need to put meiz in the town camp and take off my tinfoil hat. Another thing that struck me was the joking around that happened, not so much you b/c you've been joking all day but other people like brick, rowain, and lewwyn.

And now Rowain insinuating that Mriz and serdoa are a scum pair is taking my tin foil hat case on Meiz and going over the deep end with it.


---

I think novice had a good approach considering how scattered we've been: work backwards using town tells and see who is least town. My list is in order of most sure to least sure, although i now feel reasonably confident about everyone in the first group:

Town
Pindicator
Serdoa
Meiz
BrickAstley
Ichabod
Ryan

Leaning town
Jkaen
Molach
Azza
Gazglum
Bigger? Lately i'm less sure but i had what i thought was a village read on day 1.

The Rest: where to look for scum, IMO
Qgqqqqq
Rowain
Mattimeo
Lewwyn

Lewwyn is reminding me a lot of his last scum game. I didn't like his case on novice yesterdayyou nor that he attacked novice for using town tells to find scum, i don't like that he hasn't made a case on me today, only an attack that he doesn't believe my post restriction. (Ichabod is addressing my content as well, which shows he wants to figure out my alignment.)

I haven't gone through lewwyn's posts but i will do so now

@Bigger-
If you have extra knowledge that Ichabod is scum then you need to share. He reads very town to me and several others; i would strongly discourage voting him unless you have additional info

[Rowain]

One confirmed villager is hardly a gamechanger, Rowain. And I'd stress the hardly. It makes almost no difference at all, in a game this big.

He is if the scum has no good way to kill him. Remember we had mostlikely a jailer who could have saved novice for all aeternity. We might have even more roles that provide safety and contrary to all other "confirmed" villagers this one was confirmed beyond any doubt. There was none of "maybe he is a godfather"or "this power sounds too good to be true" or "this fits better to scum" or any other arguments we had in the past over "confirmed" villagers. And maybe memory fails me but as has been mentioned in a game not to far in the past I think confirmed villagers are the most deadly thing for wolves and wrongly confirmed villagers the most deadly thing for the village.

Especially since (to me at least) I think we have 2 confirmed villagers now: Meiz & Serdoa, due to the kill shenanigans. ooooh scary!

The people believed Azza to be a confirmed villager back in WW17 and boy worked that well for them. To be blunt I might label Serdoa innocent but I would not bet at all that the scum really targetted Meiz and hit novice by pure luck.

Post #1070 looks like a scum attempt to stay relevant in all conversations by posting blurbs on everyone.

Really? I'm quite sure I have not mentioned everyone. You should know from past experience what I think of people who use lies/untruths/misremembering things to accuse others and especially me. Following Belial is not a town-tell at all.

Votes to help kill Gaius without even offering clear justification.

Correct. BTW I didn't like this post by him. No that doesn't make him automatically scum but made him the best possibility of those available.
tally when I voted:

Novice - ( 5 ) - Bigger Brick Lewwyn Meiz Serdoa
Mattimeo - ( 4 ) - Jkaen Novice Pind Molach
Gaius - ( 3 ) - Gazglum Qg Ichabod
Ichabod - ( 2 ) - Gaius Mattimeo