So I decided to spoil myself because I really didn't want to play anyway, and I just had to know what was up with Luddicator. I guess I'm pleased to learn that it doesn't seem to be a particularly meanspirited attack. Indeed they've been (quite puzzlingly IMO) planning to attack us for most of the game! Civ doesn't really work like that I think; the only time you can afford to attack someone whose land you can't keep is when you're leading the pack. (That's the only time you get significant competitors who are also behind you enough that your attack can work.)
Anyway I feel a lot better about this situation knowing that, but it still irks me very much -- but let me interject here, I know that in fact they haven't done anything wrong, and it's entirely my fault I'm angry at this, and it was entirely my choice how to react to that anger. OK -- I don't think they're really trying to win anymore. They are trying to go out with a bang. And that doesn't sit well with me at all. My view when playing any serious game (particularly one with a 2+ hour time investment, and yeah this has taken a bit more than that
) is that we all agreed we'd try to win, and even if you think you can't win you still strive for it and try to better your position, and if you're being crushed you try your best to defend. Their knight attack against us seals their fate 100%, and I think they know that; it ruins them and with no benefit. They are literally planning to sacrifice their entire army again, to raze a city they cannot hold, with an obviously untrustworthy neightbor (who had the most ongoing deals with them of any pair of players in the game, and even asked them for 150 gold which they gave and then backstabbed them a couple turns later) who has incredible military superiority over them. Of course their plan of attacking Mackoti with a bunch of knights is not much better and the suggestion that they'd try to throw the game to us just pisses me off too (though not as much since Mackoti did betray them). If it were me I'd get some good military units unlocked to guard myself (which honestly they should have done sooner) and then consolidate my gains in Fierce's lands and tech up. They aren't really that far behind.
I little bit of their choice can be attributed to an extremely incorrect read of the game situation. Remember how score isn't a good indicator of civ strength? Yeah... we have a high score but if you compare our GNP to Mackoti it's actually a bit lower. And most of our tech lead is economic techs which have already been factored into that! Basically where we have Communism, Mackoti has the GLH, an Academy, and lots of commerce multiplier buildings and cottages. There is one area we are dominating, and that's MFG. And that is due to both transitioning into a workshop economy and owning the Kremlin. And drafting, but the Kremlin makes drafting just be a way to be quick about building stuff, and not much more efficient. Finally while we have a hammer advantage, we're effectively at military tech parity. Our invasion was probably going to get to raze just one city. Mackoti and we have been whipping our civilizations down a lot, allowing Luddicator and Yuri to collect more land than either of us have and gain stuff like the Music artist and Economics Merchant, and they need to play for a longer game. I chatted with Mackoti a bit recently and he put himself at 33% to win with us at 66%. I think that's about right. Or it was correct; with the Luddicator invasion I think that's about to change a lot.
You might wonder how I can agree with Mackoti saying collectively we have 99% chance of winning, while also urging Luddicator to play for the win. Well, (though I do disagree a bit, I think it's more like 57/33) to be honest, I think the collective chance of us or Mackoti winning was already 80% at the start of the game (say, 45% Mackoti 35% us). When you play games with this big a skill gap it inherently gives these sorts of results. (And when you play with no diplo ergo no NAPs it's even less forgiving.) Being relegated to a 5% chance of winning doesn't mean you should go crazy and take 10000-to-1 gambles all game long. It just means that while you will strive for it and try to make moves that you believe are good in the abstract and give your civilization the best relative position you could hope for, you must concede that your opposition is strong and they will probably outplay you this time. And that's OK, it's not about winning, it's about playing, enjoying and learning. The goal is there so you know what to aim for, even if you expect that you will fall short. Without being willing to accept this I never would have joined an RB game.
Anyway I feel a lot better about this situation knowing that, but it still irks me very much -- but let me interject here, I know that in fact they haven't done anything wrong, and it's entirely my fault I'm angry at this, and it was entirely my choice how to react to that anger. OK -- I don't think they're really trying to win anymore. They are trying to go out with a bang. And that doesn't sit well with me at all. My view when playing any serious game (particularly one with a 2+ hour time investment, and yeah this has taken a bit more than that
) is that we all agreed we'd try to win, and even if you think you can't win you still strive for it and try to better your position, and if you're being crushed you try your best to defend. Their knight attack against us seals their fate 100%, and I think they know that; it ruins them and with no benefit. They are literally planning to sacrifice their entire army again, to raze a city they cannot hold, with an obviously untrustworthy neightbor (who had the most ongoing deals with them of any pair of players in the game, and even asked them for 150 gold which they gave and then backstabbed them a couple turns later) who has incredible military superiority over them. Of course their plan of attacking Mackoti with a bunch of knights is not much better and the suggestion that they'd try to throw the game to us just pisses me off too (though not as much since Mackoti did betray them). If it were me I'd get some good military units unlocked to guard myself (which honestly they should have done sooner) and then consolidate my gains in Fierce's lands and tech up. They aren't really that far behind.I little bit of their choice can be attributed to an extremely incorrect read of the game situation. Remember how score isn't a good indicator of civ strength? Yeah... we have a high score but if you compare our GNP to Mackoti it's actually a bit lower. And most of our tech lead is economic techs which have already been factored into that! Basically where we have Communism, Mackoti has the GLH, an Academy, and lots of commerce multiplier buildings and cottages. There is one area we are dominating, and that's MFG. And that is due to both transitioning into a workshop economy and owning the Kremlin. And drafting, but the Kremlin makes drafting just be a way to be quick about building stuff, and not much more efficient. Finally while we have a hammer advantage, we're effectively at military tech parity. Our invasion was probably going to get to raze just one city. Mackoti and we have been whipping our civilizations down a lot, allowing Luddicator and Yuri to collect more land than either of us have and gain stuff like the Music artist and Economics Merchant, and they need to play for a longer game. I chatted with Mackoti a bit recently and he put himself at 33% to win with us at 66%. I think that's about right. Or it was correct; with the Luddicator invasion I think that's about to change a lot.
You might wonder how I can agree with Mackoti saying collectively we have 99% chance of winning, while also urging Luddicator to play for the win. Well, (though I do disagree a bit, I think it's more like 57/33) to be honest, I think the collective chance of us or Mackoti winning was already 80% at the start of the game (say, 45% Mackoti 35% us). When you play games with this big a skill gap it inherently gives these sorts of results. (And when you play with no diplo ergo no NAPs it's even less forgiving.) Being relegated to a 5% chance of winning doesn't mean you should go crazy and take 10000-to-1 gambles all game long. It just means that while you will strive for it and try to make moves that you believe are good in the abstract and give your civilization the best relative position you could hope for, you must concede that your opposition is strong and they will probably outplay you this time. And that's OK, it's not about winning, it's about playing, enjoying and learning. The goal is there so you know what to aim for, even if you expect that you will fall short. Without being willing to accept this I never would have joined an RB game.
We may have had a tech lead but we sure didn't have the economy to extend it any farther, without iinvesting in something first (like a tech that gives very strong economic benefits).
