[NO PLAYERS] WW err CIV6 Game 4

[MJW (ya that one)]

I think he just gave up and feels a counter attack is not possible because of the 2x GAs. Production also takes forever in Civ6 so he wouldn't be able to just hold out until his production edge matters.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Do GG's still stack their strength buffs? I think so because otherwise singaboy would have talked about it otherwise. So I think that the person in the Civ6 first impression thread just messed up (post #723)

[Ichabod]

Internet tells me that the Venetian Arsenal gives double ships in ALL cities, not only the city that built it. If that is true, why didn't they ban it for this game? Massive oversight.

Props to Davey that spotted it and went for it.

[Japper007]

Internet tells me that the Venetian Arsenal gives double ships in ALL cities, not only the city that built it. If that is true, why didn't they ban it for this game? Massive oversight.

Props to Davey that spotted it and went for it.

Yep can confirm, it works on every city, it basically makes you into water-Skythia! Tested around quite a bit with this wonder in my test games for this PBEM. Sadly I didn't survive long enough to contest it in-game. It is one of the best wonders in the game, may be the best period on any map with coastal cities...

[MJW (ya that one)]

It should be banned on everything but Pangea.

Fiftyrobot says that melee units are so hampered by terrain that horses would actually beat spears.

[Krill]

And now diplomacy breaks the game...

[suboptimal]

And now diplomacy breaks the game...

If the game was AI diplomacy only it still would have been possible for this deal to have been proposed by Singaboy or Archduke.   I don't think the use of a diplomacy thread, in this instance, breaks the game.  The deal itself is probably going to send Oledavy or Woden off the deep end. 

From an in-game perspective I think that Archduke would be better off keeping the developed German cities rather than exchanging them for underdeveloped Norway.  Even if Singaboy's army can take them back that's time he's wasting on recapture rather than expansion.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I think the Venetian Arsenal not being banned, pushing ArchDuke like crazy to make peace with Singaboy ASAP, is the true cause of this.

[RefSteel]

If the game was AI diplomacy only it still would have been possible for this deal to have been proposed by Singaboy or Archduke.

Even if they would have liked to, the game won't let them negotiate for three more turns, and in the meantime they would both have to play under the assumption that it might be a war to the death. Still, trading cities is banned in our civ4 games for a reason; that might end up happening someday in civ6 too....

From an in-game perspective I think that Archduke would be better off keeping the developed German cities rather than exchanging them for underdeveloped Norway.  Even if Singaboy's army can take them back that's time he's wasting on recapture rather than expansion.

Two things about this, bearing in mind I know little enough about Civ6 that I might be completely wrong: First, a fair amount of the strength of Germany's core comes from adjacencies involving multiple cities, not all of which are in TheArchduke's hands, plus Hansas want to be adjacent to different things than regular Industrial Zones, so the German core is much stronger for Singaboy than it would be for TheArchduke. Second, Archduke would much rather have permanent control of all of Norway than temporary control of part of Germany if that ends up being the choice he faces: More cities, land, and population is good in the long term, Norway can be developed to Archduke's liking, and even if Singaboy has to take himself completely out of contention to recapture his old core, that's still not a win for Archduke if he does: Singaboy is not Archduke's only rival, nor even his biggest or most-dangerous rival anymore.

[Krill]

The occupation penalty also plays a part in breaking things, but the issue with diplomacy is that the rules of the game in some parts are being ignored.