WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[BRickAstley]

Okay, I'll just settle down for a bit. Tis game is very fun, but also very frustrating.

[pindicator]

WW20 - Day 3: Post 6

Matt, by now i've accepted that you aren't going to share your suspects or your reasoning. Or respond to my accusation that you didn't really suspect Brick.

And i trust Brick 100% here. If he says he only received a result that Ichabod was town then i don't believe you're being honest about your role or it's use. You could be covering for a teammate...

BTW I have to go to bed. I want the Mattimeo lynch to succeed, so consider this a warning shot Rowain.

In the words of Wesley Willis*:

Get On The Bus

You've voted for mattimeo three times today. Every other time you found someone to go after later on. And not an original target, but someone who's already got a few votes

Day three I've pushed pindicator and tried to push bigger before everyone settled on Matt.

Please, you barely gave me a nudge. All you did was ask me about my PR and didn't follow up my response at all.

If I'm right about Matt then you're my top suspect for a teammate.

Xpost with Rowain. That's what i get for doing this on the phone

*Rock Over London
Rock On Chicago
Wheaties: Breakfast Of Champions

[Rowain]

@Pindi since you have abit posts to spare (and looking at the current VC I think today is nearly over) I would like to hear your standing on Azza, Jkaen and maybe Ryan

@Azza I would love to hear something from you Most of all about Pindi Jkaen and Ryan


@Jkaen May I ask you for your thoughts about Pindi, Azza and Ryan?

[BRickAstley]

@ Rowain hey why didn't you ask Ryan? :D

[Ryan]

You me Rowain.

[Ryan]

love*

[pindicator]

WW20 - Day 3: Post 7

@Rowain-

You and I haven't butted heads all game. That's gotta be a first, right?


RE: jkaen

This is my longest case b/c it's one i was looking into yesterday.
TL;DR version: I don't think jkaen's reveal was 100% honest, but with Ichabod being adament in jkaen's defense i think that counts for enough to give him a village lean. Jkaen was also absent on weekends last game, too, so no tell there. If Matt flips scum then jkaen gets a lot of points for being on him and tasunke both early. Tin foil hat says watch out for a possessed Ichabod, but there's not much evidece of that.

My thoughts on jkaen is that i don't like his reveal. He claims that he still is a vanilla villager on day 3 when that just seems like a role that a GM troll would give out. Do I believe his reveal? No. But i think it was Serdoa who said he could have town reasons for not fully revealing, and that is true; in that case he was just clumsy about it.

There definitely is some kind of link between the two of them in this game. Jkaen acknowledged it day 1
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid336714
But jkaen also votes Ichabod day 1
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid336950
And leaves his vote on Ichabod the rest of the day, despite the close vote. So jkaen didn't seem to know Ichabod's alignment at the start of the game (and perhaps still doesn't know). It could be a distancing attempt after giving out the link earlier, but that seems risky considering how close to the chop Ichabod was.

Day 2 jkaen reveals
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid337672
Saying that he will know his role later in the day. He also says he still has no tell on Ichabod. Key quote:

My (current) power is amnesiac - when I awake after death (and it seems being summoned) I lose my memory, and dont know who I am. I have been told half way through today my memory will return and I will be informed of any powers I have, if any.

And later he adds that he also doesn't know his role
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid337700

This makes sense meta-wise, and i agree with his reasoning up to this point. But it doesn't fit with what he says later about his power:
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid338367

Key quote:

Ok, memory came back and I am a bit diisapointed tbh. I am now a vanilla villager, but the way uber's write up reads then there was never a chance no matter my actions for me to switch to anything else. Hence it seems that along with pindicator I have been given a penalty rather than a power this game.

And this is what i attacked day 2. I didn't believe him that uberfish would make him not know his alignment or role for a day and a half - a pretty heft penalty imo -- and then give him nothing for it at the end. I still don't, because as i mentioned i don't only have a penalty. That would just be cruel by uberfish, and i don't see uberfish as someone who trolls the players in his game.

Ichabod jumps to jkaen's defense:
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid338448
And jkaen weighs in as well:

Yup right now I am level 1 as I just came back. Ichabod may have a point about future powers later on but überfish gave no indication about it if that's so

Now, saying that he is level 1 is an indication to me that there are more levels, and that you will get more powers. But jkaen has been steadfast in asserting he is a vanilla villager, which doesn't fit for me. Now, serdoa (i think) made the point that villager jkaen could have a reason for not revealing all, and that is a fair point. In that case he was just a little clumsy about it

Serdoa's point also clued me in to Ichabod defending jkaen. And in the end that is what caused me to move away. My first thought was to attack Ichabod: why would Ichabod attack my PR as unbelievable but then believe jkaen's so readily that he defends it? Another tell of their link and of Ichabod's knowledge of jkaen's role i think. But i took it a step farther, because i had a town lean on Ichabod. And i thought that if Ichabod is so adamant that jkaen is innocent despite these slips then perhaps i should look elsewhere.

Brick's scan confirms this to me. If Ichabod believes that jkaen is village then i think that's points in jkaen's favor. But i think Ichabod has played a decent village game despite is noise.

Now, a possibility is Ichabod being a possessed villager. So we can't clear jkaen entirely. Since i believe jkaen's amnesiac part of his reveal, i don't think that he could be a SK either.

We should also note that immediately upon reveal jkaen voted Mattimeo and stayed on him the rest of the day. Considering his attitude to Ichabod this could be a saving move, but if Matt flips scum then i think this gives jkaen solid village points (he's on him again today)

RE: Ryan

I think he's the same Ryan we saw last game. Actually, i would also say he is much improved over how he played his last game. I especially liked the reads he gave night 2 when he came back from his RL troubles. Once he gets some confidence he's going to be pretty good at this game, i think
Gut says he's village as i haven't caught any scum tells off him.


RE: Azza

Had an early slip that seemed a town tell to me. He said i was likely scum because GLaDOS was a villian in Portal. (Didn't you play the sequel? ). And then as he's called out on it he admits he screwed up
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid336180

He's also stuck his neck out more than he has the last few games, when he was scum. Voting Mattimeo at the end of day 2 for me is a huge town tell for Azza. I can't see him making that vote as scum, he's more interested in keeping his head down then.

Also, if Matt flips scum then Azza gets village points for making this late day 2 vote.


I'm going to be really disappointed if nobody knows who Wesley Willis is...

[Rowain]

@ Rowain hey why didn't you ask Ryan? :D

Because Ryan did already several posts about his reads including Azza and Jkaen. And he talks anyway no need to question him more .

[Rowain]

@Rowain-

You and I haven't butted heads all game. That's gotta be a first, right?

Perhaps your posting restriction helped here

And you are still alive which makes me worry a bit

Thanks for you reads

[Serdoa]

TL;DR version: I don't think jkaen's reveal was 100% honest, but with Ichabod being adament in jkaen's defense i think that counts for enough to give him a village lean. Jkaen was also absent on weekends last game, too, so no tell there. If Matt flips scum then jkaen gets a lot of points for being on him and tasunke both early. Tin foil hat says watch out for a possessed Ichabod, but there's not much evidece of that.

I don't understand this. Even if Ichabod is village - and no I trust BRick not one bit - why would he know anything about Jkaen? Just because a villager is certain that another player is also a villager isn't making that assumption true.

My thoughts on jkaen is that i don't like his reveal. He claims that he still is a vanilla villager on day 3 when that just seems like a role that a GM troll would give out. Do I believe his reveal? No. But i think it was Serdoa who said he could have town reasons for not fully revealing, and that is true; in that case he was just clumsy about it.

No, I said he could have reasons. Not town reasons. You try to put words in my mouth here and I don't like it. Especially as you tried that several times throughout your post. I don't believe Jkaen that he has no powers but I do believe there is a reason he is lying. If that is a town-reason though remains to be seen. I personally would lynch him for lying - but I won't get anyone following, so no reason to even try it.

There definitely is some kind of link between the two of them in this game. Jkaen acknowledged it day 1

Ichabod and later Jkaen clearly stated that there is no link. If there is one they both lied -> lynch all liars. There is a reason for this policy.

Serdoa's point also clued me in to Ichabod defending jkaen. And in the end that is what caused me to move away. My first thought was to attack Ichabod: why would Ichabod attack my PR as unbelievable but then believe jkaen's so readily that he defends it? Another tell of their link and of Ichabod's knowledge of jkaen's role i think. But i took it a step farther, because i had a town lean on Ichabod. And i thought that if Ichabod is so adamant that jkaen is innocent despite these slips then perhaps i should look elsewhere.

See above, they both clearly stated there is no link. Therefore Ichabod had no reason other than roleplay (as he himself stated) to follow Jkaen. Why he choose to ignore Jkaens slips is his question to answer. And maybe you could answer what you think now about Jkaen, after I've shown you that most of your arguments for why he should be considered village are not existent. That leaves just his slips, doesn't it?