Horselover Fat's journal - Iskender and the Hippus

[Iskender]

Started the "fake" war with Dave and moved my worker into his teritorry. His worker should arrive on site in 6 turns and will chop the jungle in another 3. It means at least 9 turns of unhappiness in the capital. I'm not sure whether to chop a Carnival to offset this or just go for another settler.

Dave planted 7th Calabim city. His score increase looks like a classical tech + one population point, but he couldn't have researched a classical tech 2 turns after discovering Construction, so it's either some anti C&D trick or just pop and land points. Anyway, my 6th city will be founded next turn in the place bargained for the right to pop a barrow. #7 is scheduled on turn 130.


It is turn 126 on quick and I have my first tier 2 unit - an archer. Tremble nations!

[Iskender]

Serious diplo with Pocketbeetle:

Hi Iskender,

A while back we chatted about the Gems resources between us and how we could split them up. We agreed not to rush settle it, and to try and work something out later.
We both have stuck to that agreement and I just wanted to say I really appreciate that, I think it indicates that we can work well together in the future.

As you may know, I’ve now settled all four of my cities, have placed a few settlements recently, and I’m looking to build one settlement in that area.

There’s a couple of reasons for this:
1) Obviously I’d like to pick up one of those Gems resources – they’re worth a lot to me for happy + RoK temples.
2) I would like to place a buffer city between my fourth city and your borders, so I don’t have to worry about losing workable tiles to a culture battle.

With that in mind, I quickly took this screenshot, and added some colours:

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5633/...t0040i.jpg

The green square is where Kar Karond is located; the purple line/boundary indicates the tiles that it will eventually be able to work.
PLEASE NOTE: I cannot accept anyone trying to culturally steal tiles from my megacities.
I only get four cities, if I let people take tiles away from them, then I might as well surrender now.

As such, the red shaded area is where I cannot and will not tolerate a city being founded, as such a city would claim one or more of Kar Karond’s tiles with its second cultural ring.
I’ve also marked on that screenshot where I would like to place my settlement.
This will be a low culture (initially no-culture) settlement, picking up one of the Gems and buffering Kar Karond.

I don’t know if (when?) you’re intending to settle in this area, but I realise that the tile yields from the Gems could be useful for you (and mean nothing to me).
So if you wanted to try and compete culturally -with the defensive settlement-, to pick up both Gems with one city, I wouldn’t have a problem with that so long as we have the understanding that you would supply the spare Gems to me.

Final note: I’m sorry if my language in this email seems strong.
I’m just trying to make you understand, that I consider this very important to me, and if we can’t work something out then my options will be very limited.

Let me know what you think, hopefully we can reach an agreement that is satisfactory for both of us.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Has Minerals Boy-King

This is the reply I sent:

Greetings Wise King Pocketbeetle

Your message adresses two issues. Let me answer them separately.

First, me fouding a city. I want to settle on the tile south of the cows. The spot is within the red area, but I believe that with a little good faith you may find the following arguments for me settling there reasonable:

1. If I settled there our cities would share only two tiles and I'm already willing to concede both to you by declaring not to build any buildings that generate culture other than a monument and one temple.
2. The spot is four tiles away from my capital and I consider it a part of my core lands. I would have settled the area earlier had jungle not grown over the gems. If I agreed to follow your guidelines I would be forced to settle within three tiles of my capital otherwise the capital would have been my border city.


Now the Gems. There've been some arrangements about them made between me and Dave. I've let him clear the jungle in both tiles in exchange for delivering him Gems for 15 turns. His worker is already on his way. I've agreed to give him the second Gems (in order of clearing and hooking) once they are connected and I keep the first. My offer is following: I'll trade you first Gems for a happiness resource as soon as they are hooked (which should take place in about 12 turns) and once my deal with the Calabim expires I'll supply you the other Gems for free. It presupposes of course that I have culture control over both Gems tiles and that is my only condition. One source of Gems is enough for me, but I'd like to have access to both tiles for the yields.

I know I'm in no position to be choosy. The above offers are made with this in mind. Any further compromise on my part would be close to compromising my goals for the game. I hope you can understand that.

Iskender

Hear the traditional Hippus accordions playing only minor chords?

[Iskender]

A deal with Pocketbeetle! I'm not settling where I wanted to, but a few tiles east, in the middle of a jungle. I suck at negotiations

Good news is that I still catch both Gems in the BFC and PB offered to clear 4 jungle tiles in return.

Here's the chat if you like tl;drs.

pocketbeetle: Hello
Sorry, my internet cut out as soon as you sent that note, had to restart
Was just reading your email
Wysłano o 20:43 (środa)
pocketbeetle: I'm confused
Wysłano o 20:45 (środa)
pocketbeetle: Let me know when you're around
ja: here
hi
pocketbeetle: oh hi
Was just reading your email, sorry - when you sent your message to me my internet died
ja: ok, but you got it right?
pocketbeetle: I'm confused about something though? Why are you making deals with the Calabim?
ja: because they have BW
pocketbeetle: I'm not that far from Bronze working, I could have chopped it for you soon
And I'd have done it for free!
ja:
damn
poor communication between us
pocketbeetle: oh well. So can I quickly ask, am I right in saying they're clearing the 2 gems tiles for you?
ja: yes
pocketbeetle: What about the pigs at your other city?
Get them to do that too!
ja: they're going to be jungle pigs for a while
pocketbeetle: lol
special breed
ja: like Pumba
i'm going to research BW myself eventually
pocketbeetle: okay, well #2 (ie I trade happy for happy) is absolutely fine by me. I just wished you'd asked first, like I say I'm not far from BW at all
yeah, gotta get it sometime
#1 we seem to be clashing unfortunately
ja: at the time i asked i had no idea how far north the jungle is and where is your #4
just saw it bleed over recently
Wysłano o 20:52 (środa)
pocketbeetle: k, even so, I can't agree to 1S of the cows.
I understand and appreciate you trying to say there will only be a monument and temple, but it's still your second ring culture vs my third ring. I don't want to have to start trying to pump culture there, + have it extremely exposed.
I want a settlement in place, preferably on the tile marked
So can we try and work out some other pace for your city?
*place
For starters, how about:
2S 1E of the cows. That must only overlap (1?) tile with your capital, could work a cottage for it, plus gets both gems etc
Wysłano o 20:54 (środa)
pocketbeetle: picture link here: http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5633/...t0040i.jpg
Is there something particularly bad about that spot?
ja: it shares 4 tiles with the capital
pocketbeetle: really? okay, that's too many I agree then
How about 1S of the rice
Or 2S of the rice
Rice = farmable food, so it's better than the cows.
Wysłano o 20:57 (środa)
ja: too much jungle there. at this stage i wouldn't even want to settle there
pocketbeetle: I'll clear some for you
ja: i don't see why would you feel exposed by a city 5 tiles away
pocketbeetle: I'll clear the rice tile, plus also 2-3 river jungle tiles for a new city there
Would that work?
ja: what about the tile SE of the cows?
pocketbeetle: Again, we've still the problem of 2nd ring culture vs 3rd ring, and again it prohibits me fitting in a settlement there
2S of the cows?
2 tiles overlap only with capital, that's nothing wrong with that
ja: but doesn't catch both gems
when can you clear the jungle?
pocketbeetle: within a reasonable timeframe. When are you expecting the Calabim to clear the Gems?
ja: in 9 turns
first one
pocketbeetle: Depending on how many tiles you want, I can do similar

What tiles would you want cleared?
(It's a little hard to tell jungle from that screenshot)
ja: i think rice and 3 grasslands would be OK
i'd settle 1S of the rice
pocketbeetle: I can do that.
And I'd make sure to do the rice first
Oaky - my only comment is that might make getting irrigation to the rice harder?
ja: how soon would that be?
Wysłano o 21:06 (środa)
pocketbeetle: Rice, I'll send a worker over there almost straight away, by the time he gets there should have BW, sooo 6ish turns to have it cleared
The rest, little longer, but if I send one extra worker soon after, 10 turns? to get more cleared
Sound reasonable?
ja: ok
i'll have a city there by then
pocketbeetle: Send me a map saying what tiles you want cleared, in what order (draw numbers on them or something) so I know for sure
ja: ok
pocketbeetle: Is it safe near the goblin fort? I know the other forts are spawning goblins that leave and attack
ja: it's not safe
you'd need at least a warrior
pocketbeetle: I'll use the Giant for that then
ja: good idea
pocketbeetle: Are you sure about 1S of the rice? Would it not be easier for irrigation to go 2S?
ja: 4 tiles overlap with other cities
pocketbeetle: Conrond Mor I think it is?
Or overlapping with unsettled cities?
ja: yes
conrond
pocketbeetle: Ah okay, I'm a little hazy where your cities are, that's why I'm asking
So, question is: are you okay with this?
Last chance to back out
ja: is there anything i should know that'd affect my decision? like selrahc's city 3 tiles NE?
pocketbeetle: ? Selrahc definitely has no cities near the screenshot
ja: (i thought Vanilla Ice has a hawk and you've already mapped the area down there)
pocketbeetle: Yes, Selrahc definitely has no cities near that screenshot, I'm intending to place settlements around there
ja: so i'm OK
1S of rice for clearing the rice and 3 grasslands
pocketbeetle: Okay.
Thankyou Iskedner, I really appreciate this
This was very important to me, more than you realise
I'll send a worker over there asap, second will follow soon
ja: ok
pocketbeetle: Should also let us get a road up soon for trade routes
I saw you're now #2 GNP, beating Selrahc. Impressed
ja: courtesy of Financial
i'd take Raiders every time though
pocketbeetle: True. Will you be staying Aristocracy? Or switch eventually. You seem to be putting up more cottages
ja: i think i'll stay
Wysłano o 21:18 (środa)
pocketbeetle: Okay, well let me know if anything changes. Like I say, feel free to ask me before making any deals with Calabim, I promise to try and beat any offer they make
Cya!
ja: cheers!

[Iskender]

Cardith Lorda is not the friendly boy-king he used to be. He just went ahead and settled by the sugars that me and Selrahc had agreed to split. First, I approached Selrahc about it:

[COLOR="Lime"]Pb just settled the sugars we'd agreed to split. Did you make any agreements about this or he just went ahead and claimed the area?

Iskender
[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Cyan"]It came as news to me too. I got told about it yesterday, after he'd already settled the area. I am being gifted one of the sugars in return for not kicking up a fuss however.. you might be able to get the same deal.
[/COLOR]

So i sent this message to Pb:

[COLOR="Lime"]Hello wise king Pockebeetle

I'm worried about you settling on the sugar site. I had plans for this
area. Actually, we had the sugars split with Selrahc and now you
claimed all of them without any notice.

Iskender
[/COLOR]

I have no idea what I'm going to accomplish by this. If he gives me one sugar, that's perfect. If not, I'll drop the issue.

Also, had this little chat with Selrahc:

selrahctheeternal: Around?
ja: yes. hi
selrahctheeternal: Just wanted to say.. probably partially my fault about PB stealing that sugar location.
I mentioned my intention of settling a city around there in passing, he decided to race a settler out there pronto.
Kind of irritating.
ja: indeed
selrahctheeternal: I hope he gives you the same deal he's offering me.
ja: i'll try to get one of the sugars
i've made some concessions for him already
selrahctheeternal: It's a colony, so if needs must I'm pretty sure you can culture crush it.
Wysłano o 22:01 (piątek)
ja: eventually i could, but i don't want to engage in a culture war vs Pb
i still don't have a religion
selrahctheeternal: Well I think you'd definitely lose against one of his cities, but settlements should be easy to beat for a while.
ja: what warries me is that Pb has gotten quite imperialisitc recently. he didn't even ask me about that sugar site
selrahctheeternal: It is one of the advantages of being Kuriotate
You can plonk down cities with little consideration about them.
If you've got a problem, I'd advise speaking up about it now.
To him.
And hopefully sort it out amicably
ja: isn't that a short-sighted policy?
Wysłano o 22:05 (piątek)
selrahctheeternal: Not really? Each settlement that gives a resource is probably a good investment, since the settlers are cheap.
Diplomatically it carries certain ramifications.
Wysłano o 22:07 (piątek)
selrahctheeternal: If it helps, I've sent him a "formal complaint" and said that I'd prefer it if you get gifted a sugar as well. Which is probably not that helpful... but it's probably the best I can do.
Wysłano o 22:10 (piątek)
ja: on a different note: any chance for a trade route between us?
selrahctheeternal: I can task a worker towards it sure.
You got a route in mind?
ja: i don't know where your borders are
selrahctheeternal: Right. I'm not entirely sure about yours currently.
Map trade?
ja: they are touching the lowermost sugar
selrahctheeternal: Right.
ja: i'm not sure i can send mine - no cartography
selrahctheeternal: I've got cartography. That should enable the deal for both parties.
Not even should. It does
ja: all right
selrahctheeternal: We can set up a trade route through foreign borders yeah?
ja: yes
selrahctheeternal: We could probably go through PB's sugar city then.
I'm pretty sure my extended borders will hit its extended borders.
Wysłano o 22:18 (piątek)
ja: all right then. i can extend a road there in several turns
Wysłano o 22:20 (piątek)
selrahctheeternal: It'll take me a little longer. Less than ten though. Although we'll be waiting on roads being built in PBs area.
Wysłano o 22:21 (piątek)
selrahctheeternal: Let me just double check the save a second.
Wysłano o 22:22 (piątek)
selrahctheeternal: Yeah, that should work
Wysłano o 22:28 (piątek)

I've got the impression that Selrahc and Pb are getting along just fine so I've decided it's not a good idea to reveal Selrahc my intentions to go AV already.

After discovering Construction two turns ago I swiched to 100% gold to upgrade garrisons to Archers. In the meantime Bronze Working, Cartography, Sanitation and Writing were discovered but I can't wrap my head around who researched what. Next on the agenda: Philosophy.

[Iskender]

So, I'm getting the Sugar for free from Pb on the condition that I also trade one of my Wines for one of his happiness resources. A great deal since I've lost the trading partner for Wine anyway (Dave got his own supply).

Also, Pb warned me that Selrahc might grow to as many as 20+ cities. I'm afraid it's true considering that he can settle pretty much anywhere.


And a screenshot of the land that won't be mine (Check out the goblins still holding the fort while the neighbourhood develops)

[Iskender]

In our last conversation (the one pasted above) Selrahc offered to trade maps. The trade was offered in the context of establishing a trade route between us so I believed he'd meant exchanging screenshots of our border areas (thus I wasn't sure I could send screenshots w/o cartography).

Apparently Selrahc meant the in-game exchange as he offered his map of 2/3 of Erebus for the couple of tiles that I've managed to uncover so far. Thanks mate, that's the true spirit of Christmas!

With the map uncovered I was able to make some observations.

First: Archduke's starting spot sucked. He got unirrigated corn and pigs. Compare that to Pb's irrigated wheat + plains incense (and he started with Agriculture!) + a bloody oasis! Selrahc got irrigated corn + another corn + riverside plains incense (argh!) and grassland cows on top of that. Most likely they had to move to settle those nice spots and Archduke could've moved as well. Still, in order to get visibility on the gems he had needed to move exactly NW NW on the first turn. Still, even if he had settled close to Gems he'd have ended up with no river and no food resources.

Oh well, it just delays the inevitable (which is of course me steamrolling over Erebus and sparing nobody. What else could it be?).


Other pieces of the puzzle that I've managed to place:

Kuriotates

53 pop! + 4 pop in settlements. He's the guy who discovered Writing (has a library in the capital) and Sanitation (tile yields) which he must've bulbed with the Bard, so there is no immediate threat of culture bombing on his part (good!). He's got a Command Post in the capital, most likely from a dungeon Great General or an event. He used his both Great Scientists for Academies.

Also, he pissed me off. He has tons of land and tells me I can't settle 4 tiles north of my capital! That begs for some (in due time). For now I just think we're even after his offer to help me in The First Hippus-Calabim War.

He's got the biggest population in Erebus (in terms of citizens, not demographics points) but I believe he'll be hitting a plateau stage in growth soon, but he's still surely got a few aces up his sleeve. He can easily build the Tower of Divination - 2 of the 4 required mana types are already delivered by the Kuriotate Palace. There is also the threat that he might try to summon Hyborem. With two free techs slingshot (ToD + Grimoire) he could easily grab Strength of Will and wreak havoc with a tier 3 summon of choice while working on the Tower of Mastery. OMG, he really could do that

Illians

26 pop. Pb was right when he said that Selrahc has free land for at least ten more cities, but one thing is reading something and another is seeing it with your own eyes. So I saw the map and wept. He's got more free land than I will have in total after I've settled every fishing village i can. And he's trying to claim it as quickly as possible with whipped settlers. Once he's done it he'll definitely be a monster.

I'm not sure it's going to work out for him though. First, he's already whipped himself pretty badly, down to 26 pop (and that's only one more citizen than I have). His poor GNP at the moment is not the result of city maintenance but of working only a couple of high commerce tiles. He bases his economy on cottages, in some cases even non-river ones. It will take him ages to develop cottages in the yet unsettled lands and he's got only about 20 riverside tiles in those free lands. In the end he might emerge as a production monster with a crippled economy. Ultimately, his demise (or triumph!) may be a point in the CE vs. agrarianism debate.

His window of opportunity, opened with the completion of the White Hand, has almost closed now. He can't adopt a religion (and thank Agares for that!), but i'm afraid he might try to open another window with Sorcery. With Apprenticeship + Conquest + Charismatic (and possibly Form of the Titan) he could spam almost-mages summoning insane number of tier II summons. If he bulbs a GS (easy to get one with Pacifism) for a prerequisite tech for Sorcery and discovers Writing it won't take him long to get mages even while REXing at the same time.

Calabim

About 41 pop. Dave said that he considered me an himself the 2nd league, with Pb and Selrahc playing in the 1st. His pop says though, the Calabim are more on par with Pb than with me and Selrahc. Not much of the Calabim lands was revealed by the map, but it looks like they have vast amounts of unsettled land to their east. If Dave spreads Agristo farms to all this land quickly enough, I'm afraid he'll be a much scarier monster than Selrahc.

He's not in a hurry for Feudalism - hasn't researched Writing yet. Actually, I'm afraid he's going to break the NAP and invade me with catapults. I see the Siege Workshop in Acaia and it just build its first catapult. This city is a production monster, with 20 hammers from Manor and three mined tiles alone, able to build a catapult in 3 turns. I'm still at 0% sci upgrading warriors to archers but if Dave decides to throw all his MFG at me I am toast. But then again he acts friendly, after Pb's declaration he wrote:

I noyiced PB has declared war on you. Do you need any help?

To which I replied:

The war is of the same kind as between you and me, but thanks for the offer, I appreciate it. If my relations with Pb get ugly I won't hesitate to give you a notice.

I've started building my own Siege Workshop just in case.

Svartalfar

10 pop. Finally I see where his capital is. We are indeed on the two ends of a long river, but the trade seems to go through the Calabim lands probably because there are few fogged tiles on the river. I've sent a scout to unfog them.

I'm not sure what Sareln's grand plan is but if Selrahc goes for mages, Svartalfar assassins might be the key factor in defeating them, what would give Sareln an opportunity to get revenge (I imagine an epic series of deadly strikes on the Priests by the Aeron's Chosen )

Khazad

About 14 pop. I've never spoken to Cull, he's not updating his thread and seems to be doing some such as building a Courthouse in the capital. I wouldn't mind at all if those Calabim catapults paid him a visit.

So, that's it. No screenshots this time.

[Maksim]

It's a bit tricky replying to this post since you haven't posted a screenshot of what you have actually uncovered, and I don't want to give away something you don't know (lurker code of conduct and all that).

First of all, excellent C&D work. It's very impressive - though how much of it is correct, I cannot say.

The Hippus were hamstrung in the early game not so much by lack of food resources, but by so many forests and corresponding lack of easy commerce. To get the cottages going, you had to research not only Agriculture-Ancient Chants-Education, but also Crafting and Mining, which is quite a delay. Now that you have done so, however, your GNP is quite formidable (especially as you have established an academy at the capital as well), which has not gone unnoticed by other powers, who rank you as equal.

The land distribution in this game is indeed somewhat uneven (though, to a large extent that can be blamed on Selrahc) - you, in particular, have vampires to your east, and a jungle belt to the north. Pocketbeetle, on the other hand, started next door to Selrahc's Priests.

As to the Ilian window of opportunity almost closing - do you think that if Selrahc's priests were to come knocking on your door now, you'd have enough forces to make them bleed? How about in 20-30 turns?

Regarding Calabim's NAP - you are concerned about about it breaking. Would you consider breaking one yourself? Or do you just not trust them?

[Xenoborg]

How did you get so much information about what buildings cities have and even what they are working on at the moment?

[Iskender]

Here's the current screenshot of what I can see. It didn't fit in the screen so you need to check out the mini-map

The Hippus were hamstrung in the early game not so much by lack of food resources, but by so many forests and corresponding lack of easy commerce. To get the cottages going, you had to research not only Agriculture-Ancient Chants-Education, but also Crafting and Mining, which is quite a delay.

I'm most jealous of those incenses, they almost double the palace's commerce output. But then again, it'll only make sweeter the ultimate domination of the Green Empire!

Now that you have done so, however, your GNP is quite formidable (especially as you have established an academy at the capital as well), which has not gone unnoticed by other powers, who rank you as equal.

I wish, though, that I also had comparabe MFG. Yeah, I wish...

As to the Ilian window of opportunity almost closing - do you think that if Selrahc's priests were to come knocking on your door now, you'd have enough forces to make them bleed? How about in 20-30 turns?

It depends who'd accompany them and what promotions would they have. I dread Mobility (or Haste from the Calabim). If they had it I wouldn't be able to get enough defenders to the endangered city quickly enough. My defence plan against the priests would be amassing enough archers that the priests wouldn't be able to get good odds even after throwing Ice Elementals to soften up the defenders. And if the priests have something like combat V + cover I'm in trouble regardless of how many archers I'll be able amass.

Regarding Calabim's NAP - you are concerned about about it breaking. Would you consider breaking one yourself? Or do you just not trust them?

I think I'd break a NAP only if it made a difference between winning the game and coming 2nd. I'm not sure if Dave would break our NAP. I see his catapult in Acaia but only because he let me see it by directing my worker to the tile that overlooks the city. It's not much of a reassurance though, especially now that Sareln sent a hawk and a hunter (most likely with another hawk) and is probably mapping my lands turn by turn. Damn, I hate hawks, i feel so exposed.

How did you get so much information about what buildings cities have and even what they are working on at the moment?

You can see city's buildings when you zoom in the camera. For example that's what I can see in Acaia:



It's also possible to see which tiles are worked by a city - their animations change - ie. the barn in the farm tile above has light, meaning that the tile is being worked by the city.

Update on turn 131:

Someone, probably Pb, discovered KotE. Some minor diplo:

To Selrahc:

Thank you for the map, I've obviously gained more by the exchange (at least tilewise). If your intentions are honest I really apreciate it.

To Sareln:

[COLOR="Silver"]PB appears to have declared war on you. Is this a hot war?

-Sareln-[/COLOR]

[COLOR="lime"]Not really, it's yet another of my fake wars - Pb is chopping some jungle to my north.

I think I know what is blocking our trade route - there are two fogged tiles on the river that connects your capital with my lands. I'll try to defog them in 3 turns, this should give us a direct trade route.

Iskender [/COLOR]

[Iskender]

I wanted to write to Dave earlier to fill him in on the gems situation but I must've been hit by an acute attack of procrastination.

Hi

First, thanks for getting your worker on site, I hope your trip through the Green Empire was enjoyable, the view on the Goblin Archer Zoo in autumn can be breathtaking.

If I'm not mistaken that's the exact schedule for your worker:

Turns 132-135 chopping the southern gems tile
Turn 136 moving 8
Turns 137-140 chopping the northern gems


Now my part of the deal:

I'll have culture control over the northern gems in turn 146. The road will be already there and the mine is scheduled for turn 148. Initially I planned to have both gems within my culture sooner. I wanted to settle west of the gems but before I did that Pocketbeetle intervened, claiming that this location is unacceptable for him "for strategic reasons". He offered to chop several tiles of jungle for me if I decided to settle east of the gems instead. I agreed, without much enthusiasm, as I'm not in position to be choosy with Pb right now. One of the consequences of this deal is that the gap between your chopping of the 2nd gems and getting the resource is 8 turns. I can't make it any shorter, I'm building a monument working a plains forest which will be lumbermilled in 2 turns. I could chop the forest but it'd speed up completion of the monument only by 1 turn and leave the city with almost no production potential.

I'm not sure how much does this gap interfere with your plans, if you find it unacceptable we can still call the thing off and capture each other's workers. If you don't mind waiting these several turns I have an idea how to leverage the situation: as soon as you leave my borders we could sign peace and open borders which would give us a few extra turns of trade and a tad higher sustained peace bonus. I could also move an archer to protect the worker in case something spawns in the jungle.

Iskender

I don't think Dave would like to break the deal after reading this, the perspective of getting a free resource for 15 turns is quite neat after all.

Nothing really important happened in the Hippus lands recently. I settled the jungle city, built a market or two and upgraded another two warriors to archers.

Now Pb, on the other hand, has been quite busy. On turn 131 he discovered KotE and the turn after, Philosophy. I'm not sure how he managed to do that - his GNP is not high enough to discover the tech such as Philosophy in one turn. He either switched research or got an event that adds beakers (the best even't I've gotten so far is the +10 culture for my 2nd city, but I'm waiting for the Dwarven Orb).

In any case, I'm not excided at all about where research is leading. Now he's only two techs away from Ashen Veil and one from the Tower of Divination. If he's decided to grab the Grimoire there's nothing I can do about it. I need to research Philosophy to see if he grabs Way of the Wicked. If he does I'm switching to Plan B. The original plan was (techwise):

Philosophy -> KotE -> Way of the Wicked -> Corruption of Spirit -> Priesthood -> Fanaticism -> Infernal Pact -> Malevolent Designs ->

Plan B is, in lieu of Hyborem, get Chalid, or at least Rathas. The tech path would look like:

Philosophy -> Animal Husbandry -> Horseback Riding (yeehaw!) -> Writing -> Way of the Wise -> Trade -> Honor -> Priesthood -> Religious Law

Plan B is a good failsafe as it doesn't require getting all the way to Chalid to work. I could do with Rathas. Actually, it would be quite fun - I'd blind the big stacks and then pillage everything in sight. And then I'd get Chalid... Yeah, not bad for a Plan B.