[SPOILERS] Bismarck of Mali (NobleHelium and Lewwyn)

[NobleHelium]

Hmmm, seems we could delay the founding of Lithium by one turn and have the work boat ready at the same time, instead of working a mine for three turns. We'd time the work boat to whip right as the settler has 3 turns to completion, then overflow into the settler to finish it in one turn. Then two turns after that we whip the galley. That is much more productive, only downside is that we won't be able to grow the capital past size 4 for about five extra turns. Which might not be a problem, we could do another settler...main issue is, somebody else needs to build a warrior for scouting the mainland then.

[NobleHelium]

Okay, just realized that the ivory camp completes around the same time as the worker after the galley if we research Hunting after Sailing. So happiness is not really an issue, as long as we get Hunting after Sailing. That looks like the best move for production in the capital then.

[Lewwyn]

Played. Not much to do. Fish hooked. Granary started. Whip that granary next turn.

I was thinking about our micro and we've left out some hammers for the oracle. If we are building the city on the forest hill next to the rice in the NW, we can chop that hill before we plant that city. If we're lucky the hammers will go to Helium and the Oracle. It will only be about 13 hammers because its out of cultural borders but with IND for the Oracle that's another 20 hammers. We could definitely use that. Now the only catch is we don't know if its going to go to Helium or Hydrogen. Right now Hydrogens borders will pop in 6 turns and Helium will pop in 8. I believe that the hammers go to whichever city has the most culture in the tile. So if we chop the forest after the superior culture of helium overtakes Hydrogen on the tile we could be sure that way, if I'm correct.

Can any lurkers confirm mechanics for where the hammers go out of cultural borders?

[Lewwyn]

Oh and I forgot:

[NobleHelium]

No, do not whip the granary yet. Let Hydrogen grow to 4 before whipping.

Tests show the third ring chop will go to H, but will test further.

[NobleHelium]

Well, maybe it is better to whip the granary next turn. I don't know for sure really. I was doing it after the growth in simulations though.

Lithium will go in the southeast because we need to keep the Rice for Helium. That doesn't mean we can't chop the forest in the northwest, but I don't think there's any way to make it go to Helium and not Hydrogen. I don't think I've tested recently though, in earlier tests the Helium border pop happened later because the Stonehenge build was slower. We would get 16 base hammers if it's inside our culture.

[Lewwyn]

I say whip it next turn. It will regrow to 3 at the end of turn anyway and that regrowth adds surplus food to the box faster.

[NobleHelium]

Played turn 40. I whipped the granary. We need to dump the overflow into the settler before switching to the work boat. Why, you ask? Well, because our advisors say so!



It was such a great idea that I had to go with it. There is now a settler in the queue.

I almost forgot to switch to the farm in Helium but then I remembered.



I was sure that Jkaen built a second city but it seems not - 48k population is a size 4 city. So those points are from a tech. And...it's not Bronze Working. He got his last tech on (his) turn 35, so it's been four turns. If my guess of Wheel earlier is correct, that's probably Pottery. Kuro's points are from growing both his cities to sizes 4 and 3 respectively.

I am not sure about the chop thing. In the sandbox it goes to Helium, but in the live game it is currently going to Hydrogen. So, don't get your hopes up. If we can get the chop into Helium we can do Oracle at EOT 54. And yes, if any lurkers know anything about the mechanics of this that would be highly appreciated.

[NobleHelium]

So yeah, Lew, I'm not sure if you got my messages in gchat at the end there. Basically we need to overflow into the settler since we're not going to be able to whip it right after the work boat. For one thing, it needs hammers before it can whip, and even one turn of production won't drop it to a 2-pop whip. Overflowing into the settler and then swapping to the work boat (to grow onto the cottage, then swapping back) is definitely the way to go. We'll want to swap back to the work boat when the settler is 3 turns to completion and then whip the work boat on the last turn. The overflow will complete the settler afterwards. We'll have the clams netted immediately this way, and the work boat won't be idling around and (possibly) sucking up maintenance.

[NobleHelium]

Okay, seems we could swap off the settler a bit later and then build the work boat naturally before whipping the settler right afterwards. That is, in spirit, what you planned. But I don't think this is better because we won't be able to finish Sailing in time to overflow into the galley, and since we 2-pop whipped the settler, 2-pop whipping the galley after that will hurt more. We'll miss out quite a bit on working the cottage/mine and we'll have to dump hammers into a worker that won't be completed until a few turns later. Overall it just seems to not flow as well. I much prefer the timed 1-pop overflow-whip on the work boat. Although we'd lose some hammers due to the overflow cap, I think. Why is that bugged and not giving gold for those hammers? We could whip the work boat one turn earlier to avoid the hammer loss. That might be better.