I'm sorry for you. Losing 1 hpt from the mine this early in the game has the potential to be devastating. 
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[SPOILERS] Rusten prepares to face the music
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(March 22nd, 2018, 02:50)ipecac Wrote:(March 21st, 2018, 14:15)Rusten Wrote: Working those mines every turn paying off big time. Which post #? Think you need to be more specific about farms+whipping vs mines. It's a very broad question so I can only give a superficial answer. Whipping absolutely shits on mines when granaries are in play, but we're not there yet. For vanilla BTS I usually know the right move off the top of my head due to experience, but in this mod where the 2nd and later pops are 20 hammers instead of 30 I have to reconsider all the time. For the scope of this game I have not whipped yet because of the tech path. Maybe I wouldn't have in either case, but I had my 1st settler out the turn after BW so there was no time to whip it. The first settler is the most profitable one and the one most likely to be whipped profitably in my experience. This early game would've played out completely different if those 2 unforested river grass hills had forests on them. I would not have had useful worker actions and I would be forced to tech BW early (meaning no early religion). As it stands I found a way. I usually forego mines completely early on, but with the IMP trait they are easier to use than turning food into hammers by whipping in some situations. For starters there will always be some turns where you are producing the settler with base food and not hammers while waiting for a whip. Secondly this is a start with a river which impacts the calculations. It's very hard to justify whipping away an improved tile with natural commerce on top. If you go back to the start of the thread my very first sim idea was to ignore the rice and farm wheat into double mine into size 3 settler. I rate these mines very highly. If they were just grass hill mines without commerce I'd not be as insistant on working them. In fact I probably would not have improved them in the first place and I'd go early BW for chopping and use the worker turns differently. All of the river tiles near Kaputt are also going to be cottaged, so making a farm would mean wasted worker turns long term. This is not a huge deal, because as mentioned worker turns are not worth as much later on in the game, but it's still relevant. In general you very rarely farm to whip, you whip away the surplus from food resources. (March 22nd, 2018, 04:38)Rusten Wrote: For vanilla BTS I usually know the right move off the top of my head due to experience, but in this mod where the 2nd and later pops are 20 hammers instead of 30 I have to reconsider all the time. That was pretty much Krill's goal, to change whipping from the One Right Answer without hitting it so hard as to never be the right answer either. So it's good to see that reaction  .
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker 
Training exercise:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/azkqi4nkfbxq2r...dSave?dl=0 The link above is a save of the current empire situation. Your goal: Earliest possible Oracle+Aesthetics. Running and comparing longer playing sets is a great way to understand the implications of various actions. Conditions: -You must have settled at least 5 cities in total. -You must have researched hunting and fishing. Or you can do it without and convince me that it's worth skipping. The state of the empire at the turn of completion obviously matters, but that's where assessment comes into play. -Copper is improved immediately (after roading gems) with the 2 workers to enable defenses and a spear is whipped immediately in Medina to scout/protect to the NW. I will share my results later. If anybody wants to join in then this is a good time. I understand those who only want to sit back and relax of course, but building empirical evidence is the best way to learn.
Preliminary findings:
Before the gems the bottleneck was research and this is still the case. What I like to do is to play a test run up until completion and assess the state of the empire. Would I benefit from delaying it further 1 turn or rush to complete sooner? My first idea was to construct it in Leitmotif on size 3 and 1-whip spear and worker into it. After realising that the bottleneck is research I am now growing to size 4 and whipping 4->3 and 3->2. There is also a few spare turns in between where I simply put some hammers into a work boat for later. My initial test was T58 Oracle+Aesthetics, but I was less than 1 turn of research away from getting it sooner (~25 beakers). Overall I was fairly satisfied with the state of the empire in every regard. So naturally I am now looking into what can be done to gain those 25 beakers. My ideas: -Use the spare turns in Leitmotif to put a few hammers into the Stonehenge for fail gold. I take it for granted that this will be built before T55. -Delay the settling of city #5 1-2 turns (this one costs a lot of maintenance and only brings in 1 commerce on T1. -Whip away population 1-2 turns later for extra commerce. Especially the 4->3 Kaputt whip comes to mind. Even more so as it's the city producing said settler. So what remains now is to replay with the above ideas in mind for T57 and assess the empire at that point. If I'm not happy with it I will see if I can do something else to speed it up. If no such things exist then I will aim for best possible situation with a T58 date. Usually I just try to picture the end result in my head, and that's how it's going to have to be later on, but for such a slow game like this there is no reason not to put it to the test ingame for these early turns and make 100% sure.
Apparently it's possible to tech fishing first now and still have hunting in time for the pigs. That's a pretty big deal -- it could almost single-handedly bring in the missing beakers at the cost of delaying the spearman a few turns. Seems worth. Think I can confirm T57 Aesthetics at this point.
T45 crab improved
T46 4th city T47 4th worker T47 pigs improved T48 Spearman T51 Working silver T51 Settler (for city 5) T52 5th worker (Crab Lake) T54 City 5 (with worker nearby) If I remove these two points then I can reach writing T57 assuming 4 hammers into Stonehenge. Honestly I can probably get by without the failgold too, but I can add a little big of a cushion. Settling city 5 T57 instead of T54 is not a big concession for 1T faster Oracle. Maybe I can have 2 workers nearby instead of 1 this way too, which narrows the gap. I will then have my 2nd expansion wave after Oracle. No need to start on the SoZ until mathematics I imagine. Edit: Also, according to my F4 screen dtay and BGN are no longer at war. Seems it was something minor. Either entering borders to have a look around or killing a scout with a warrior.
Dark Savant lost a city to Donoval so that's -1 to the Oracle chase. I guess he was unable to defend against an early poking holkan. I think the main competitor might be OH+Fintourist. IMP/IND would love to build it for early forges and converting hammers into research.
Many other players/combos that I could see prioritizing it too though, which is why I don't want to go all in for it. If I get beaten to it by a few turns then I can get settlers with the hammers instead. That said, it would be absolutely insane if successful. Almost to the point where it would be my game to lose. |
