Politics Discussion Thread (Heated Arguing Warning)

[AdrienIer]

It is the ease of separation, given to welfare recipients, which allows for the so-called No-Go Zones of Europe, however because Muslims have increased cultural in-group integrity compared to most other migrant groups, instead of actual Single Motherhood, what welfare gives them is instead extra Income for multi-wife families, encouraging the wealth and influence of Polygamist lifestyles among the Muslims and increasing the incentives/ motivations for those "extra Muslim men" without Wives in such a polygamous society to enter other spaces for other reasons, and to do things that those with no wives and no future prospects are sometimes wont to do.

I don't want to turn into Nicolae and insult people randomly, but this is seriously ignorant. I mean, the rest of the post was pretty bad, but talking about no-go-zones unironically, and speaking about polygamy as if it's a thing, means that you're either part of the neo-fascist movement, completely ignorant or purposefully spreading lies.

Edit : oh sorry I just saw your reply, it's option A then, and not solely option B. I was being too kind.

[Tasunke]

AdrienIer, just think of me as the Malcom X for White people. He used to be a part of the Islamic Movement before they kicked him out, I used to be Left Wing before they kicked me out for being a Straight White German Male with a Pulse.

Also like Malcom X, like he continued to be Muslim, I continue to be Socialist. I'm just also Nationalist now, and I believe a lot less in Government/State solutions for local/isolated issues, especially when that Government is the *Federal* government. I believe local Governments and Local politics are the key.

[scooter]

Anecdotally the cases of migration out of CA that I've heard about are conservatives getting out of the liberal madness.

You're characterizing an entire state's attitude as madness for no reason other than you disagree with some unknown policies, and then you invent out of thin air a narrative on how it's so bad people are fleeing. And then you act shocked when people call you on it. What am I supposed to say? You did the same thing with this baby formula stuff.

OK, here's what happened.  I had no idea "madness" was the phrase you were complaining about, since you wouldn't say so until now.  It so entirely wasn't part of my point that it didn't even register on myself as something I had said.

You misparsed it.  (Understandably so.)  "Fleeing the liberal madness" was part of the anecdotes, the self-given description of those concerned.  It wasn't my narrative.  My point was that domestic migration out of CA is people who are conservative seeking a like-minded environment rather than liberalism expanding out of CA having proven its success there.  That is what I've seen supported but only anecdotally, so feel free to provide citations otherwise.

You will accuse me of "walking it back", but that is what I meant all along.

I do not characterize liberalism as madness.  Liberal voters and supporters mostly act rationally in their own self-interest.  I adhere to no ideology politically; as it came up in the metaphysics thread, I see no objective standard of morality, only a social contract.  In practical terms, I end up on the conservative side because that is where my self-interest correlates.

I characterize liberalism as not in my self-interest.  I don't need Obamacare, college subsidies, minimum wage, immigration, baby formula subsidies; such things only represent costs to me.  I agree with liberalism on things that represent no negative to me, like LGBT and abortion rights, and also on gun control since I have no plans to own one.  I cite no ideological reasons for any of those positions, merely my own self-interest.  Criticize that however you like, but any criticism that amounts to "you're selfish!" will be met with "yes, that's the point."

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.

[wetbandit]

Lots of people are leaving here, lots of people are coming here.  There is a net loss in population according to these figures the Legislative Analyst's Office puts out.  The people who are coming here have higher incomes, people who are leaving generally do not and apparently are younger.

http://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265

Edit: California has a net loss in population in domestic migration.  I have no idea if the population is rising significantly because of legal and illegal immigration.

California did start a a Mexican State and it might end up as one again, I suppose that is fair. From what I gather of the triple state solution of California, which does seem the most sensible, West California might eventually become its own nation like Monaco or Luxembourg, basically just propping up its own systems on donations, gambling, other forms of upper-tier wealth and so forth, while severely limiting its borders in order to make such things possible (borders as in the geographical size, I'm sure it will be as open borders as it possibly can be). 
Meanwhile Southern California will likely "initially" form its own nation as well, but with the ratio of 'La Raza' supporters and Mexican Flags in Southern and Western Mexico, I suspect that Once Southern California becomes its own nation it will inherently have a desire to join the nation of Mexico, as another Mexican state such as Sonora or Chihuahua, albeit with perhaps a bit more population.
Then Northern California can rejoin the rest of the USA as the only sane part of California. And anyone left that is Liberal can go pal around in San Francisco or something, the City where a man once declared himself as Emperor (of the city) and no one cared/ they went along with it.

There is a lot here to unpack, but the most egregious offense is your defamation of Emperor Norton I.  Take that back.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton

Seriously, Three States California is a wholly impractical proposal just like the six states proposal the guy behind the initiative tried to get qualified a few years ago.  Even if the initiative passes, I could not imagine that the current Republican-controlled Congress would consent to the creation of two additional states which would likely elect Democratic senators.  The resulting mess from sorting out, for starters, how the water infrastructure would work among the three states would be unbelievably complicated and cost-prohibitive in my opinion.

The rest of your statements are way out there.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Agreed, Emperor Norton was a fine figure of a human being. I'd've gone along with it, too.

[ipecac]

I don't want to turn into Nicolae and insult people randomly, but this is seriously ignorant. I mean, the rest of the post was pretty bad, but talking about no-go-zones unironically

They're actually something that can be talked about in proper conversation now.

Merkel is fighting for her political life, who knows what else she'll admit in her desperation

[Tasunke]

I wouldn't consider my statements a direct criticism of Wmp Nortan by any means however I must admit I know little of him. I'll read later.

Interesting statement about Water infrastructure, what are the current state of affairs on that issue? I seem to recall some issues earlier between Nevada and California.

[Tasunke]

As far as to No Go zones I personally find fault with its full definition. In my opinion a No Go zone can simply be defined as a largely homogenous Muslim ghetto, of either Turkish, Libyan, Iraqi, or mixed ethnic makeup.

These areas are not impossible to visit or enter, and indeed on special occasions and under certain parameters anyone can enter, but only a fellow Muslim can enter these areas with full rights, safeties and prviledges, and even these, only if u are male and obey Islamic law. However, female Muslims can also traverse these areas with a male Muslim relative as escort, and outsiders can traverse these areas either if approved of by the local religious authority (generally imam) or if escorted by a male Muslim that can speak for you.

[Tasunke]

I In Germany they are recruiting Muslims into the Police Academy, and in my opinion their hope is that Muslims trained in German law will be able to police these Muslim communities, because often police that do not respect Muslim Law are not allowed with full privileges into these communities ✊

[AdrienIer]

Then there are pretty much no no-go-zones. I've lived 12 years in an area the neofascists would call no-go-zones. I was a teacher in one this year, and will teach in another one next year. I wouldn't claim that there are literally zero in Europe, but I don't know of any near the major cities in France.