WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Lewwyn]

I meant Post Restriction.
I understand the Ryan post.

I think that it is a lie by Azza. It seems much more haphazardly done. It doesn't actually fit like PIndi's does. Creeper's should have MORE freedom during the night not less.

[Bigger]

ryan - please try not to take everything so personally. only scum have a cheat sheet here (and maybe not even that, if there is a SK) and we don't have a smoking gun so this game is mostly about trying to convince people of your opinion. thats not always going to work, in fact it frequently doesnt, it doesnt mean people have any ill will towards you, they just haven't been convinced yet.

lewwyn - I agree about Azza. But why not Molach?

I see your point. Think it's important that we do our best today, still 2 evils besides Azza.

Anyone think total could be anything other than 4 scum + 1 SK? I tend to presume/assume some things rather quickly, have been known to make mistakes. Surely 5 + 1 is too much?

I think 5+1 is more likely. it all depends on balance, though. we don't really know how powerful gaspar or tasunke's roles were, or the remaining scum roles, so its hard to say .

ryan - LISTEN .
the real problem here is the mattimeo apparently did not understand his own role properly. I wish he had at least got clarification from uber and explained it better before he died
Anyway, it is clear that Lewwyn did not kill anyone on night 3. If he had, Ichabod would be dead now. I don't see any scenario where a SK could kill on nights 1 and 2 (the 2nd night getting delayed) but not on night 3. he could be a wolf and a different wolf killed night 3, but I don't think lewwyn's play makes sense as a wolf. I've found a lot of his arguments convincing and share similar suspects.

Its also entirely possible we have a vig, not a SK. Not entirely sure why a vig would target Rowain, but its not like vigs have historically made good decisions with their kill.

ok Lewwyn, I'll bite on Azza. I hope people won't let Molach slip by tomorrow though :/.

[Qgqqqqq]

+1 to that last
I like the matyr rowain theory - that he tried to save BRick and got killed because of it (scum/SK double up).
Because of that I'm 80% sure its not a vig.

[Azza]

@Azza I would love to hear something from you Most of all about Pindi Jkaen and Ryan

Pindicator:
I find myself agreeing with a lot of his arguments. Very strong village lean.

Jkaen:
I think it's reasonable not to trust someone who claims to not know their own alignment at first. I don't consider him to be particularly scummy at this stage, but nevertheless I'm wary of him.

Ryan:
I find his posting style annoying to read. It's like Qgqqqq's character limited phone posts but worse somehow. So I naturally have a scummy lean on him, but I don't have any actual evidence to back it up.

[Qgqqqqq]

The difference is I used fullstops/enter key.
Do you have any paticular tells yourself?

[Azza]

Day two he starts with this post:

Ah, it's good to be able to talk again.


I think Gaspar's kill indicates that we have a serial killer, rather than a vigilante. I had a town read on him before he flipped, so I can't see it being a vig kill. Unless there are multiple scum teams, which doesn't really make with uberfish's listing of Gaspar = Scum rather than a team name or anything like that, it has to be serial killer IMO.

My impression from Ichabod's posts is that they're too jokey and carefree to be scummy.

Tasunke's been practically unsighted. Rather unusual, not sure if he's just improving his play or has happened to draw scum this time.

Molach gets my vote for now though. I don't like what he was doing with the flug situation at all.

Now I really thought this was scummy. He makes a big deal out of not being able to talk at night, bringing it up immediately. But its not like he talks about anything he could have mentioned during the night. All of it is based off then night actions. And why would you make sure everyone knew in this way? He's being cute and coy with it. No one noticed he could talk at night anyway, but he is in a hurry to tell people. Why not tell people during the first day? During Day 2 Azza goes onto say goodnight before the end of the day... Why not say something before the end of Day 1? I think he came up with the post restriction during that first night, and I think he's lying.

I don't gain anything from saying I have a night time post restriction on the first day. At best, it's pretty much ignored, at worst it derails the discussion. I wasn't online near the deadline on day 1, so a goodnight post would've been ridiculous. I tried to post a bit more on day 1 than I usually would to make up for the fact that I wouldn't be able to post at night.

Also Day 2 he only votes for Molach and Bigger. At the end of the day, he switches to Mattimeo.
Day 3 he's on the Matiimeo train from the start of the day to the end of the day. In fact he only posts FOUR posts during the entire Day 3.

One of those posts was in response to a Brick attack. He says:

Ok, but what have I actually done that's scummy? It's pretty much how I always play, regardless of alignment. Relatively quiet, pick my targets, and more or less stick with them.

Let me answer that. You have disappeared. You have not helped the village. You were a strong supporter of the Mattimeo lynch Day 3 without looking at any other suspects. Your post restriction seems fake.

I'm not going to bring up alternative candidates for a lynch when I'm on the people I find most suspicious. On day 2 when it became clear Bigger and Molach weren't an option, I moved my vote to the next best option. Day 3 I waited for Mattimeo to defend himself from his accusations, the defense never came. So rather than exploring other options I stuck with the person whose actions (or lack thereof) indicated that they looked very scummy.

Azza's last post of Day 3:

Why don't you suspect yourself?
Id also like to hear more from Ryan, he's been rather inactive lately (yeah yeah he's probably asleep - no excuse!)

Highlighting coz I found it amusing.

Worthless. Also where's the "Goodnight" post? I believe that you simply let it slip because the restriction isn't real. You just wanted to not have to post more. The more you post in these game the better chance you get exposed.

AZZA

No goodnight post because I wasn't on close to the deadline.

[pindicator]

Lewwyn-
I just don't know about the Serdoa as SK thing. He seems honestly pissed off and clouded - and if he was a SK then why do that whole scene? Everything's going the SK's way at this point, I would guess.

Lew, I'd also like your opinion on the jkaen reveal.

Ichabod-
Interesting reveal. This should put Bigger in the clear about his ability claim. Share or don't share the message at your discretion, but if you can share the intent behind it and your interpretations of the intent of the message that would be helpful.

2nd, did Lewwyn do anything last night? Obviously he didn't kill

3rd, what do you think about jkaen? Rowain was right that jkaen hasn't been the same since he revealed. Now, it has been the weekend and jkaen was absent weekend's last game. But a big reason why I backed off on jkaen day 2 was because you seemed very confident he was innocent, enough that I suspected a link between you two (yes, Serdoa, I know what they said...) or at least that you had some knowledge of jkaen

Azza-
What are your reads outside of those three?
Same question I was trying to get from Mattimeo, really: who do you suspect and why?

Jkaen-
Still a vanilla villager?

Qgqqqqq-
Tell me what you think about people not named Bigger or Molach

And Serdoa-
I'm all ears. Or at least, auditory receptors. You didn't think we'd change off Mattimeo; well, now you don't have to worry about him. So what are your thoughts?

As for myself, I was looking at my list from yesterday:

Town
Pindicator
Serdoa
Meiz
BrickAstley
Ichabod
Ryan

Leaning town
Jkaen
Molach
Azza
Gazglum
Bigger? Lately i'm less sure but i had what i thought was a village read on day 1.

The Rest: where to look for scum, IMO
Qgqqqqq
Rowain
Mattimeo
Lewwyn

And I kind of want to toss it away. But really, I think a lot of the town reads are right. I'd probably move Ryan down to Leaning Town and Lewwyn up to Leaning Town. The Rest now gets Azza, Qgqqqq, and Jkaen. And I need to re-read Molach to try to see Bigger & Qgqqqq's case on him.


New day, new countdown. Actually, I'm gonna go back to battery power. Because I'm a potato

90%

[Azza]

The difference is I used fullstops/enter key.
Do you have any paticular tells yourself?

I still think Bigger is suspicious. PM ability or not, I still see him as being the most likely candidate as the SK.

I don't like how Molach has almost entirely faded from the thoughts of the town.

Right now, I'm really suspecting Serdoa though. I don't like his posturing on the Mattimeo mislynch, his attack on Brick's credibility the night Brick got nightkiller felt like distancing to me, and overall his crusades seem to have been pushing town targets.

[Qgqqqqq]

Pin did you read my recent posts?

[Lewwyn]

I think Jkaen's reveal is suspicious because everyone has a flavor power and from what I can tell every power has some effect on the game and is readily shown to have bearing on things that happen. For Jkaen's power to be "have no alignment until he remembers" and then when he remembers he's a vanilla villager, does NOT fit with the theme we've had of roles in this game. Every role should be able to have an action that is perceived in thread or has an effect on another player or their ability. Jkaen essentially has no ability and no effect on anyone else or the game itself. If Jkaen had simply stayed quite the entire time, he would have simply been a vanilla villager with no powers at all. I do not believe that fits with what uber designed. Additionally this means Jkaen had no reason to reveal.

I think there are two possibilities.

1) Jkaen is lying scum.
2) Jkaen has an ability that is useful to the village and doesn't want to give it away.