Politics Discussion Thread (Heated Arguing Warning)

[AdrienIer]

useless or redundant

You view humans as garbage if they're not useful to you. Fortunately you're in the minority here

[ipecac]

useless or redundant

You view humans as garbage if they're not useful to you.

Nonsense. I want them to be useful again, and am alarmed that eventually others will want to get rid of them. You think mass welfare will help the poor, but unwittingly are going to make a class of permanently unemployed, large numbers of people to be regarded as redundant and useless, because they're not contributing economically. Which leaves them extremely vulnerable to eugenics.

In other words, the welfare you support will unwittingly make them easy to get rid of, which is part of the reason why I'm arguing against permanent welfare.

[ipecac]

• Economic rationalizations for and against immigration are a waste of time, because in the end how many, and who, you want to let in comes down to your preferred identity.  This can be driven by language, race, religion, liberals values...not money.
  

Economic arguments make sense for the related issue of mass refugee intake: if you can't take in all, then you have a lifeboat situation and you need to consider how many you can take. Economics thus becomes a important consideration.

[AdrienIer]

In other words, the welfare you support will unwittingly make them easy to get rid of, which is part of the reason why I'm arguing against permanent welfare.

There's literally no reason to believe this. No historical precedent of any kind. It's just your excuse to let people struggle while you profit from theim.

[ipecac]

There's literally no reason to believe this. No historical precedent of any kind.

False. Eugenics was once the progressive darling, supported by most academics, lots of societies and rich people. When it comes again it'll be backed further by environmentalism (that proclaims that there are just too many people here on earth) as well as genetic research.

It's just your excuse to let people struggle while you profit from theim.

More flailing nonsense. I'm not big businessman or CEO or anything like the sort. What I want, amongst other things, is for Big Business and Big Government to stop colluding and oppressing the people. You seem to think that 'let them eat welfare' is a good permanent solution.

[AdrienIer]

As for the people who are struggling currently, working two jobs for low wages etc, they are the opposit of useless. Their job may not need a lot of qualifications, but it needs to be done. They are the people, forgotten by many, who grease the wheel of our society. They are those who make many things that we consider natural, possible.
They are also very efficient for the economy : every penny they make goes back in as food expenses, rent, clothing etc. They aren't the people hiding away their money in Panama, forcing the rest of us to compensate their greed with our increased tax money

[ipecac]

As for the people who are struggling currently, working two jobs for low wages etc, they are the opposit of useless.

I'm not talking about that. What permanent mass welfare will do is to create a class of people who don't work even though they are capable of working, because they're dependent on the welfare. Hence they'll be economically non-productive and redundant.

[AdrienIer]

What I want, amongst other things, is for Big Business and Big Government to stop colluding and oppressing the people..

Then you're doing it wrong. The current right wing economic policy is to ask big business what they want and apply all their demands.

[AdrienIer]

As for the people who are struggling currently, working two jobs for low wages etc, they are the opposit of useless.

I'm not talking about that. What permanent mass welfare will do is to create a class of people who don't work even though they are capable of working, because they're dependent on the welfare. Hence they'll be economically non-productive and redundant.

It has been proven that increasing welfare and reducing pressure on unemployed people has little to no effect on unemployment.

[ipecac]

What I want, amongst other things, is for Big Business and Big Government to stop colluding and oppressing the people..

Then you're doing it wrong. The current right wing economic policy is to ask big business what they want and apply all their demands.

Congratulations on wrongly applying a stereotype. By the way, the left wing policy is the same. E.g. Big Business cries, like the rabbit in the brier patch, 'don't regulate me', but what they want is more regulation to strangle the competition, as Bacchus pointed out.

And do read that article about eugenics in the US. It's very informative about how eugenics in the US was pushed by the progressives, how it was considered scientific, enlightened and progressive, and how that inspired the Nazis.