[SPOILERS - PBEM17] regoarrarr - Bismarck of Inca

[regoarrarr]

We'll see. It's not an urgent wonder, because of how expensive it is: no one else is going to be building it any time soon. Mids are still 112 base hammers with Forge and OR and everything else: we can get 3x hammers, which is better than anyone else by a long shot, who will be lucky to get to 2.25.

I have no feel for a specialist economy.

We should discuss whether we want our first GP to be an engineer or a prophet. I plan on building HG here, and we could probably get pretty good odds for an engineer, which we could use to rush the pyramids (or GLib)

[Cyneheard]

Engineer.

With Ind and stone, I think spending a GE on the Mids is excessive: I'd use the GE on either GLib or AP. Including the aqueduct, I think HG is the same cost as Mids for us.

[mackoti]

Well , building Mids you can go for manarchy way later and sprint towards civil service right away.And imagine that build mids get a great ingineer for Great library just perfect. And Btw if Mids cost same like Hangings(conting here the aqueduct) what make you think Hangings is worth more?

And having Mids its more apealing to use specilist like merchants so you can generate great merchants and looks more beter create a specilaized GP farm , you know national epic is cheaper for you .

[Cyneheard]

Well , building Mids you can go for manarchy way later and sprint towards civil service right away.And imagine that build mids get a great ingineer for Great library just perfect. And Btw if Mids cost same like Hangings(conting here the aqueduct) what make you think Hangings is worth more?

And having Mids its more apealing to use specilist like merchants so you can generate great merchants and looks more beter create a specilaized GP farm , you know national epic is cheaper for you .

I think Bureau is somewhat overrated, especially for an ICS build: I'd rather have Vassalage/OR and get 1-promo ships and 2-promo land units. But I do think we should consider hand-building the Pyramids.

HG: with Forge + OR, it's 45h for the aqueduct, and then 67h for the Gardens themselves, for 112h total. That assumes we're in OR and it's spread to the relevant city by the time we have Math.

[mackoti]

well in our game,Pbem 10 the capital with oxford and burocracy was like 500 beakers /turn and just 300 without so you dont underestimate burocracy, if you play right burocracy can be very strong.

[regoarrarr]

Email from novice / spaceman

Hi

We are the Straight Talkers. We tell it like it is and we get to the point.

Good to have met you - we are peaceful. We offered Open Borders in game - it would be great if you could accept as a sign of our prosperous nations' co-operation.

Congratulations on landing the Oracle. Did you go for the classic Metal Casting?

You're the third person we have met. Shoot is to our east and slightly south, and darrell is to our south.

It seems that there are incomplete land bridges giving everyone an easy way of finding everyone else, as well as some interesting points of discussion for land rights.

Have you met anyone else?

Is there anything you would like to know?

spaceman

[regoarrarr]

My reply

Hi Novice and Spaceman!

Glad to meet you (I guess). I say I guess, since I'm not sure where or how we met! :-)

I appreciate your sharing of information and we are happy to reciprocate - yes we did take Metal Casting and no, we have not yet met anyone. Seems like that's the way things go for me - I never seem to meet anyone early.

And thanks for being "Straight Talkers!" As you know from reading my posts in PB4, I'm the same way!!! ;-) But seriously, I do like straight talking - I really don't spend hours and hours composing these diplo messages - that's just how I talk! You'll see if/when you grab me on chat. Speaking of which, I'm generally on Google Talk as well as AOL IM with this same screenname.

We also appreciate the offer of Open Borders. I will probably have to decline the offer that pops up immediately, but I'm definitely interested in discussing how that might work between our civs. As you well know, having the Great Lighthouse gives you much more of a benefit to having Open Borders than we would get (even assuming that we have a trade route to you which at this point we probably don't?).

Though we have not met anyone and have thus not been approached with this by anyone, it would not surprise me if there was some sort of "don't sign OBs with the GLH guy" pact being floated, perhaps already? So I hope you understand my need for caution at this point. I don't want to sign OB with you and find myself on the wrong side of a 3v2 dogpile.

But. Having said that, obviously from my experience in PB4, I am sensitive to your guys' side of things too. And even though you're not in PB4, so couldn't close borders there in retaliation (not that you would actually DO that), maybe somebody that IS in PB4 might read our conversation and want to close borders with me after reading our diplo conversations in one of our threads? So I don't really want to take a hard line on that, since I find it annoying and stupid that everyone punishes the guy with the GLH, just because he happened to spend early resources on it (speaking of which dang you guys built that FAST!)

So. How can we build up closer relations without necessarily signing OB this exact turn? I've read your thread in PBEM13, and in fact it is one of the few that I check up on at this point. So I know you guys are good players, and generally I prefer to ally with strong players because it makes things more fun than trying to "dominate" a weaker player. Of course in this game, everybody is pretty good so maybe that's not as big of a factor.

So what do you think? I try to respond pretty quickly to diplo messages, and if you guys do too, I think that's a good sign of the beginnings of a promising working relationship! Like I said, feel free to reply via email or chat

[regoarrarr]

Reply from novice / spaceman

Hey rego

Apparently you are to our NE. (I say "apparently" because I have not yet seen the screenshots - I can't access them at work.)

We understand your concern re opening borders with us, but we already have Open Borders with Shoot and darrell, so an embargo against us looks unlikely (at least at this stage!). Signing OBs with us would be a gesture of goodwill for now, but we would look to treat you well in future negotiations as a result.

As for the construction of the Great Lighthouse, what can I say but: TIMBER!

spaceman

We also had a chat

so cyneheard (my ded lurker0
and i were chatting about this yesterday
and how we could work things out
because we want to be friendly
novice: sorry, boss over shoulder...
Sent at 10:09 on Thursday
novice: back
you still there?
Sent at 10:16 on Thursday
Me: sorry i am here
the question we had was why we should sign ob when a) you have glh and b) we don't have trade routes back to you
I mean, it can be payable in the future, but iti seems like we need an up-front commitment that we wouldn't otherwise get
novice: sorry,was afk again
fyi we don't have a trade connection to you yet either
but we're starting discussions
what do you mean by "we need an up-front commitment..."
Me: well one thought we had was jewish conversions
you agree to convert X of your cities to judaism
novice: we are also neighbours with the hindu and buddhist peoples
Me: sure
novice: and they are closer than you are
Me: that was just one thought we had
novice: Let's see, here's a list we sent to another neighbour
We can put the following things on the table:
Goodwill
Maps
Peace
Gold
Resource trades
Me: ok
novice: I guess if you want to keep it quid pro quo we can do a straight gpt deal
need to work out a reasonable price in that case
Me: yeah
novice: If you want to keep it more intangible we might have some screenshots that would interest you
Me: like of the lands between us?
novice: for example
anyway, I need to go, you can think it over
Me: ok

[regoarrarr]

Updated overview shot



Note the new city of Pindicator

Red circles are our 2 settlers - for the cities of Profane and Mackoti

[regoarrarr]

And it's too bad darrell is not here to see how we're building 2 workers right now!!!!