WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Qgqqqqq]

Wtf?
How do you make that connection jkaen??
People have a vase on you so Lewwyn is a sk?!?

[Jkaen]

people have a case on me thats all meta. How do i argue that as i am telling the truth. The other case today seems to be lewwyn. View it as a defensive vote if you want.

Right now uber is getting me lynched, nothing i can do about it

[Bigger]

Pindicator's post made me laugh. For the first time in the game I make a post directing suspicion to him - and he responds by mirroring me. He defends the person i defend (Serdoa) and follows me onto jkaen with his vote.

hmm, not sure what that means, but I wanted to point it out for later reference. I suppose I might do the same even as a villager.

fwiw, Serdoa, Pindicator is right. If you are village (and I still think you are) we really can't win without you! so please don't give up.

[Serdoa]

@Meiz

I assume that the action is delayed but happens first thing the next day (I could see some unfun implications with repeated uses on the same target otherwise). That would make Ichabods taunt, possible martyrs etc. just not work. Seems the most logical explanation why Rowain and BRick died, because as we all seem to agree, if Rowain was a martyr, there is no way he would have not saved BRick. I mean, giving your own life for one more seer-scan? Heck, yeah, no questions asked. So, as BRick and Rowain died there are two possibilities:

1. Rowain had not a martyr-role
2. Rowain had and used it on BRick but was killed first thing in the night due to the delayed nightkill of N2

@pindicator, Bigger

Thanks. And sorry for misunderstanding you pindicator. That actually was one of the reasons I really was pissed and wondered since when you become like that. Great to know that I was wrong

[Ryan]

And serdoa gets the praise for my entire theory sigh... Time to afk :P

[Jkaen]

Ok, Liverpool just lost a game they should have walked so I am in a really bad mood right now, but in this game there are two issues as I see it with play.
A. Many people don't believe my role. But it is what it is, hence I can do nothing about that
B. people have an issue with my serdoa accusation, but if you are village and you put a vote on yourself the very first thing you do is announce that, you don't wait until people put theories forth and announce it in your third post.

[Serdoa]

True Jkaen. But you realize that I am travelling today and had other things on my mind? And tbh my idea for that self-vote when I first read my role was more along the lines of seeing how others will react and draw conclusions from that. I probably have subconcious still had that idea in my mind and followed it.

[Jkaen]

Ok, so you agree point b on me is not a scum tell then?

[Molach]

I'll take Meiz and Ichabod as village. Some think Meiz could be SK, but then he would have been very stupid to use his power and not save it for last day for a safe win. He could not have known100% that Tas was scum, so why both risk hitting a village & waste the end-game-winning shot.

Non-scum I still have Serdoa. Tremendous effort, brings many new theories to the table, big push on Ichabod day 1. That push would have meant that Scumdoa would have had to started up & really followed through the case on someone he knew to be innocent. (Innocent because there was no evidence on SK first day)

Azza must commit more. Been reading through day 1 a bit, and to flog a dead whore's man a bit:

(Zakalwe):

(Azza):
I'd been considering moving off flug up til I read this post.

(pindicator): Zakalwe & Q - can you both explain why you think the case on flug is weak? Zak, especially you. This appears a lot like what thestick did in WW19 (18?). And you nailed him for that day 1. How is this different?

It really is reminiscent of thestick's newbie wolf play. A suspicious enough first post to draw attention, and then a very scummy reaction to the attention he's getting. I'm pretty comfortable sticking with flug now.

Look again at this post. What Azza is really doing here (if Flug is innocent) is popping in to say he'll stay on Flug, but shifting a good deal of the blame for his mislynch onto Pindicator. Also, it's basically an appeal to authority. It feels very opportunistic to me, and that's why I said he picked up on a random accusation. Really, he's making an excuse for staying on Flug, not trying to push him further. As if he knows how it will actually end - in a mislynch.

Jkaen took a step up the ladder of suspicion. About his claim, I'll buy that he started up without knowing the role, but of course he wouldn't admit that he became scum over the day. Be honest whenever you have the opportunity as scum is smart, so he claims the true bit just alters hte outcome. Possible. Meta-speculatively wise, it is strictly not vanilla villager role to start off like ???, even if you end up that way. So need to go by his posts after the wake-up call.

And about posts, if this was next night I'd be voting him right now for this:

(Jkaen):ok the case on me is stupid, my role is my role i cant do anything about it, but if everybody thinks lewwyn is the sk then fine i will follow you all, on your own heads be it

Lewwyn

(my coloring, seems he forgot to redify it).

But this early in the day it seems strange for an experienced player to panic and go into defensive votes like this if he were scum. Still getting slight scum lean from that post but not as damning as it would have been 18 hours from now. Still not seeing all that much from Jkaen. First crossover madness game he was scum and got very silent toward the end (scum victory).
Day 1 Jkaen votes Tasunke, is active, ends up on Ichabod.

Anyway if we believe his ??? claim (and strange thing to both make up and freely offer as scum) he is not SK as there was a SK kill night 1.

Then some people I have neutral+ reads on+ is leaning town)

Ryan - Positively surprised at his reentry into the game, made some good points when he went through many players the night of his reentry. It's very hard to start up after a break like that. I remember being scum, having to take a slight break, lurking, and then trying to get back into the game to stave off the lurkerlynch. No chance.

Bigger - After you claimed it it was to me obvious you had the power - why risk neck as scum on something so easily checked. Being able to send messages does not clear you of anything, though. But Gaspar attacked you on day 1, so IMO less likely as scum. And Ichabod targeted you on N2 and got your letter. So for you to be SK you would have had to abstain from killing that night. (Roleblock does not work, no letter to Ichabod then). While you argued heavily that Gaspar was obvscum and vigilante target, noone else thought so. Also this arguemnt does not seem consistant with you being SK.

And the rest of the pack:
Qgqqqq - I can second that you have the ability to ...generate hostility against people you suspect or disagree strongly with (some X-rated words in one of your posts at me yesterday) but don't see that as scummy myself. If Evil align I'd think SK rather than scum, but got no indications either way.

Lewwyn - While the set of occurances fit the data, doesn't occam's razor say that Lewwyn is not the SK? He could of course be, if possibly maybe - isn't easier explanation that someone else is? I second the pattern of 'few big cases' (had one on me day 2 too), I'm not gonna use the 'not seeing the villager Lewwyn' cliche (opps) but the day isn't over. Anyway could still be scum, but then did not do the kill last night. Unlikely to be scum with Azza, since he argues for his lynch before going to bed today, not sure it'd be enough time tomorrow to stop that train. And I suspect Azza most.

Pindicator - Good posts. Might be bad for activity to only make 10 posts a phase, but going about it in a way that is consistent with really hunting. Agreeing with much he is posting.

[Jkaen]

Hmm seems the formatting may not have worked when on my phone, my vote is lewwyn

Also to answer big gears question based on his vote I guess azza agreed