Pb70) Superdeath and the return of memes.

[Mjmd]

Ya I wanted a map where my opponents didn't start with golds to my nothing, not at dagger distance vs other people getting space, and people weren't completely isolated with narrow chokes. If people want to play random world map they can sign up for that, but that wasn't a good map for a diplo game.

SD I did say this in my thread and to Charriu, but I think he played it 100% correct to win. If he goes heavy he gets very little and you probably win. His best chance was to hope we injured each other a lot so he could get back into the game.

[Charriu]

I still think PB67 was a better diplo map and I would have played every position on that map. The benefits of that map for diplomacy were.

- More interesting exploration phase
- which leads to more diplo interaction via map trades
- Asymmetrical border regions lead to more engaging border negotiations
- More trade opportunities due to missing some resources in each region ( we had that here too, but almost nobody took advantage of it)
- asymmetrical regions in both size and quality lead to a more dynamic interaction compared to the rather stale and symmetrical border situations we had here.

But having said all that I think it's clear why I am in the minority here at RB, which is one reason why I'm going.

[Mjmd]

- It was more interesting exploration and I think there were more map trades.
- I remember our border discussion in PB67 was "see that choke, that is the border". I think maybe the mid point rivers should have been removed this map, but that is about all. But we did have some tension on the borders. Not aware of all the discussions, but obviously it wasn't chokes so people could do things like take more land towards a neighbor (see Bing toward you, Scooter towards Bing, and even SD and I had a discussion about a dry wheat). The borders were wide so you could do things like have a city of each player somewhat exposed like on our border.
- People getting natural advantages so others HAVE to work together or they win because of where they started is not interesting to me. I do actually think a couple of my food spots were better this map, which honestly made a lot of difference. Such a small difference, but I think it had a pretty big impact on how game developed.

There are plenty of random / random ish games happening, join one of those (hint hint big game play casually). There is a reason I don't join those, but have instead rolled maps for good enough land shapes / helped whomever is. Different types of games are for different types of people and that is fine and good.

[Tarkeel]

If I were to do any changes to the final map, it would be to remove the midpoint lakes. OTOH, I think they vision they granted was also interesting.

[Charriu]

There are plenty of random / random ish games happening, join one of those (hint hint big game play casually). There is a reason I don't join those, but have instead rolled maps for good enough land shapes / helped whomever is. Different types of games are for different types of people and that is fine and good.

I would join a random map diplo game, but seeing how hard it was to get this game running, I doubt a random diplo game will ever happen. Only diplomacy games are interesting to me at this point. MP without diplo is just an inferior version of single player for me. But I know I'm alone in that opinion. We don't have to argue about. We just have different tastes.