WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Qgqqqqq]

Q choosing to go for a post analysis this late in the game over killing some for a strong case is pretty sad I must say.

I disagree as to the strength of your case.
What is this in reference to tho?
Are you saying if I find ascum tell I should ignore it unless I can find some meta to support it?
What is your case, besides "the meta could fit"?

[Qgqqqqq]

A) I don't think there is a non-meta based case on Lewwyn (this IMO - yes I have read the ones presented about his play serdoa, I just don't agree EitB them), and I disagree with the viability of the meta on him - time and again I feel explanations are made which only convolute it - rowauns power does x, mats power does x.
I think its suffering from confirmation bias tbh - for pretty much every step there is another requirement.
I think Lewwyn s point is more we shouldn't abandon scam to focus on sks.

Ignore the a) BTW - my points just sort of flowed into each other.

[Ryan]

Ichabods power requires that target to have used his ability. Ichabod explained that before deadline. Lewwyn could have just not attacked last night and let his delayed kill work. Espically with Ichabod saying how his power works and when it doesn't. So simply only 1 kill happened since he didn't activate his second kill. Matti said how his power worked and who he targeted. So did Ichabod Lewwyn has enough time to react.

[Qgqqqqq]

Matt never said it moved EVERY FUTURE ACTION on by one.
I don't think the target had to use a power for ichanod either.

[You also ignore ichabod thinking it cleared lewwyn from sk]

[Ryan]

The way the votes are spread is Random. Everyone can make scum tells from posts. In sc2 if you had enough cases on a person based logically based on powers you would lynch. You guys have a wired insistence on keeping the day 1 randomness going. Überfish is revealing the roles for a reason. If we ignore them we don't deserve to win this. I know that sc2 mafia is different from forum but I don't believe this idea would be that much different from both.

[Ryan]

I'm a taunter. I target a player at night and, if that player does something at night, it reverts to me, not the intended target.


No Q you are wrong. That's what Ichabod says and it proves my point. Lewwyn could have chosen not to attack to counter that and only let his delayed kill go in. Can I consider this a scum tell that you ignored to read this ?

[Qgqqqqq]

I'm lost for words.
That reasoning is just so ridiculous - do you think the point is the powers, and nothing else???
PR are there to add spice, but the focus is, and always will be, on tells in posts and how people react.

[Ryan]

Maria power I agree with you but I though it was clear I dropped that part. I'm sorry should have clarified that.

[Serdoa]

I don't believe who to be sk/scum?

My disagreement with the sk case on Lewwyn is that I feel ichabod clears him from executing a kill (no I don't believe the meta that he either didn't kill last night or Matt has some sort of superpower for delaying someone's actions for the rest of the game)

Q, the above is not what was actually said. What do we know

N2: Matt delayed Lewwyns action -> only one nightkill happens (!)
N3: Lewwyn was hit by Ichabod but didn't do anything

Now, why didn't Lewwyn do anything N3? Because village would have to be stupid to not make the connection "Oh, no second nightkill on N2 when Lewwyn is delayed but 3 nightkills on N3 -> Lewwyn is SK". Thats not convuluted at all, it just makes sense on all levels. Every single action is accounted for. There are no lose "strings". Now, I know, Lewwyn pointed a 4 point-list which could have happened instead. That list isn't accounting for any other actions, but nontheless, I agree with him. I am certain he is right. To be exact, it is his point 3 that happened. SK got blocked. To be exact, he got delayed. Actually thats exactly what Ryan and I tell you.

Anyhow, none of this has to do with some kind of superpower Matt has. He said he delayed Lewwyn N2, no kill happened and on N3 Ichabod targetted Lewwyn but if Lewwyn is SK he couldn't do anything on that night anyway, because he would have given himself away. His nightkill from N2 though got through.

I mean, I don't mind if you disagree Q. But please, take the case and the points we made serious. If you don't disagree after having understood and thought about them, fine. Right now though I get the feeling you disagree because you have a feeling that it cannot be, without anything to back that up. If so, fine again. But then say so, instead of trying to weaken the case by acting like it would need an act of god for it to have worked out in the way Ryan and I laid out.

But its not a good case. Its circumstantial. I listed numerous reasons why there could have been no second night kill N2. And they are all EASIER explanations than my kill being delayed and then me NOT killing N3. That is convoluted, not simple. What if SK and Scum simply doubled up on novice N2? Your whole theory falls apart. There is nothing else. I am a villager, I win with town and you don't even have a case for me being scummy let alone the SK!

I mean it useless to argue with you.

Serdoa. Who is next on your scum list? If you couldn't lynch me today WHO WOULD IT BE?

Lewwyn, I agree, it is useless to argue with me as your case really makes sense on all levels. I even agree with your point list. It just is not point 1 but 3 that happened. Btw: If you had doubled up on novice and were delayed on N2, the kill would of course not happen N3 (novice can't die twice), but if Rowain for whatever reason protected Ichabod, again it would point to you being SK. That would also make sense, as your novice-kill was on a confirmed villager and the Ichabod-kill would have been the same. I wouldn't do that as SK, but you are not me.

See, my theory also works with you doubling up on novice on N2. You simply make to much sense as SK Lewwyn. It is not alone for the meta. It is your whole play. Someone (I think Q) stated it would look like village-Lewwyn to him, but really that is not true. Village-Lewwyn would hunt for wolves. You did not. You kept back as much as possible. Thats easy because no one expects much of you D1 and D2. But I think with all the kills, with all the role-reveals, we could have expected more. Heck, you didn't even attack Rowain and I sure expected that. He was so calm the whole game that imo he opened himself up to the standard attack of "Rowain normally crusades". Nothing though from you. You are reserved, only attacking when you think you can get a kill in.

As for your question: I sure hope we will lynch you. So I have not made up my mind whom to go for else. I posted earlier whom I could see as scum (Q, Bigger, Molach) but I was shown that I haven't taken into account everything that happened. I will have to do that when night beings, but for today I won't divert the time I have to hunt for someone else, when I have scum already in front of me.

[Azza]

@Azza:
Yes it was answered, thats how you play the game, find a good vote and leave it there. I suppose I am it today. Am I a good for for being scum, SK or because it might actually be a successful compeditor for the block today, with help from Q and Bigger?

I've thought a bit about it, and you're a likely scum candidate, but not a likely serial killer.

I think Lewwyn is more likely to be serial killer than you are to be scum though, so I'll move my vote there.