WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Ryan]

Lewwyn, I am teaching my self to read your posts. Thats how it seems to me. I just dont see fluidness in the way you voted and how you defended. I am not understanding the points of views that are letting you off and I am asking for explanation.

[Lewwyn]

That just doesnt make sense. Two villagers with the same ability? Can that happen?

If you believe that Molach is a villager than he would also be a village neighbor just like flug.

And I guess if we don't belive thta and we believ that Molach is scum, then maybe Azza gets less suspicious... Maybe.

Jkaen

[Lewwyn]

Lewwyn, I am teaching my self to read your posts. Thats how it seems to me. I just dont see fluidness in the way you voted and how you defended. I am not understanding the points of views that are letting you off and I am asking for explanation.

You want me to explain... what exactly? I voted today without regard for my own safety, mostly because I don't think I was ever truly in danger today. The only reason I claimed was to try to get you and Serdoa to look at other people instead of wasting your time saying, over and over again, "Lewwyn is scum because the powers make sense for the sequence of night kills, it must be him."

[Ryan]

thats the thing. We have 2 neighbours, 1 guy who gets innocent by telling GM, and a person who gets innocent by making a new account. The neighbours according to molach are town but just told "anything" for balance issues and to doubt themselves?

I am unsure of this whole case. How can there be 4 confirmed towns through abilities.

[Lewwyn]

thats the thing. We have 2 neighbours, 1 guy who gets innocent by telling GM, and a person who gets innocent by making a new account. The neighbours according to molach are town but just told "anything" for balance issues and to doubt themselves?

I am unsure of this whole case. How can there be 4 confirmed towns through abilities.

Who said Molach was confirmed town? FLug certainly wasn't as he was lynched! I think Molach is definitely not cleared. Obviously my role is bringing up alignment issues for you guys in terms of whether to trust whether my alignment changes after I use my ability. Brick confirmed Ichabod with a scan. Novice's ability gives straight confirmation. Mine I guess gives less straight confirmation but a chance to prevent a nightkill.

[Ryan]

I am having trouble trusting your ability. Since its exactly similiar. I can understand maybe a role and aligment seer in the same game thier different , but 2 town confirmations feel pretty powerfull. You have the imagination to invent something like that aswell I think. + I really hated your defense.

[Lewwyn]

Anyway I'm going to bed.

[Ryan]

Anyway I'm going to bed.

Good night Sweet prince. May the chinese demons not torment you in your sleep. Or the skulls attack your neck. May the darkness of the night kiss you good night and shield your woes. May your death be quick and silent.

[Molach]

I really do like Molach right now.

Molach-
I thought you said I was town earlier. Now you're saying I'm the SK. Did that change after I voted you?

50%

You mean like because of sensible posts, I trust? Not as a target?

As I think I said earlier that 'town' earlier means really not scum. I think SK is doing his best to appear town. And that would mean playing his standard villager game, trying to hunt wolves by day however said player usually does that. Perhaps try to keep from being too obvious town to avoid Nightkill, but I'm not sure to how great degree one can control these things. Don't fret about the 'can be SK', for me I think that is anyone, except Bigger, Meiz and (gasp) Lewwyn. Like 95-99% sure on those 3.

I still will hunt scum. Got an interesting conspiracy theory for why I think this is smart; I think wolves hit the SK on night 2. They certainly did not hit novice, or Meiz would have died. And I think hitting Meiz makes sense for SK, confirmed non-scum and with some thought non-SK too. Daykill & nightkill in same role? So I suggest scum hit the SK, Sk hit Meiz. SK did not die due to immunity. So perhaps scum knows who it is, kept him alive for a few extra nightkills and can kill him at will now. (Auric Ulwyn had 1-shot nightkill immunity last game, was hit by wolves night one but we (wolves) did not realize why our target didn't die).

Don't have much time, after kids are put to...sleep in 2 hours I'll be here.

Lewwyn, you say in your claim that you 'have to' make a new account, then 'may'. You were pondering to reveal for a while, then make an error in claiming? If you are town that is extremely unfortunate to bungle claim like that.

And Ryan, I don't think we neighbours could be confirmed town due to being neighbour. But if any of us got confirmed or 'confirmed' through other means then the neighbour thread would have been valuable

[Ichabod]

I don't believe who to be sk/scum?

My disagreement with the sk case on Lewwyn is that I feel ichabod clears him from executing a kill (no I don't believe the meta that he either didn't kill last night or Matt has some sort of superpower for delaying someone's actions for the rest of the game)

Q, the above is not what was actually said. What do we know

N2: Matt delayed Lewwyns action -> only one nightkill happens (!)
N3: Lewwyn was hit by Ichabod but didn't do anything

Now, why didn't Lewwyn do anything N3? Because village would have to be stupid to not make the connection "Oh, no second nightkill on N2 when Lewwyn is delayed but 3 nightkills on N3 -> Lewwyn is SK". Thats not convuluted at all, it just makes sense on all levels. Every single action is accounted for. There are no lose "strings". Now, I know, Lewwyn pointed a 4 point-list which could have happened instead. That list isn't accounting for any other actions, but nontheless, I agree with him. I am certain he is right. To be exact, it is his point 3 that happened. SK got blocked. To be exact, he got delayed. Actually thats exactly what Ryan and I tell you.

Anyhow, none of this has to do with some kind of superpower Matt has. He said he delayed Lewwyn N2, no kill happened and on N3 Ichabod targetted Lewwyn but if Lewwyn is SK he couldn't do anything on that night anyway, because he would have given himself away. His nightkill from N2 though got through.

I mean, I don't mind if you disagree Q. But please, take the case and the points we made serious. If you don't disagree after having understood and thought about them, fine. Right now though I get the feeling you disagree because you have a feeling that it cannot be, without anything to back that up. If so, fine again. But then say so, instead of trying to weaken the case by acting like it would need an act of god for it to have worked out in the way Ryan and I laid out.

But its not a good case. Its circumstantial. I listed numerous reasons why there could have been no second night kill N2. And they are all EASIER explanations than my kill being delayed and then me NOT killing N3. That is convoluted, not simple. What if SK and Scum simply doubled up on novice N2? Your whole theory falls apart. There is nothing else. I am a villager, I win with town and you don't even have a case for me being scummy let alone the SK!

I mean it useless to argue with you.

Serdoa. Who is next on your scum list? If you couldn't lynch me today WHO WOULD IT BE?

Lewwyn, I agree, it is useless to argue with me as your case really makes sense on all levels. I even agree with your point list. It just is not point 1 but 3 that happened. Btw: If you had doubled up on novice and were delayed on N2, the kill would of course not happen N3 (novice can't die twice), but if Rowain for whatever reason protected Ichabod, again it would point to you being SK. That would also make sense, as your novice-kill was on a confirmed villager and the Ichabod-kill would have been the same. I wouldn't do that as SK, but you are not me.

See, my theory also works with you doubling up on novice on N2. You simply make to much sense as SK Lewwyn. It is not alone for the meta. It is your whole play. Someone (I think Q) stated it would look like village-Lewwyn to him, but really that is not true. Village-Lewwyn would hunt for wolves. You did not. You kept back as much as possible. Thats easy because no one expects much of you D1 and D2. But I think with all the kills, with all the role-reveals, we could have expected more. Heck, you didn't even attack Rowain and I sure expected that. He was so calm the whole game that imo he opened himself up to the standard attack of "Rowain normally crusades". Nothing though from you. You are reserved, only attacking when you think you can get a kill in.

As for your question: I sure hope we will lynch you. So I have not made up my mind whom to go for else. I posted earlier whom I could see as scum (Q, Bigger, Molach) but I was shown that I haven't taken into account everything that happened. I will have to do that when night beings, but for today I won't divert the time I have to hunt for someone else, when I have scum already in front of me.

The bolded and underlined part: How can you even think Lewwyn doubled up on Novice if you claim to have switched Meiz and Novice on night 2? It seems like you have forgotten your claim, which is a bit hard to take if the claim is true. Wouldn't that mean that Meiz would also be killed or that both SK and scum attacked Meiz? There's no way you can think Lewwyn attacked Novice on night 2...

I don't know, Serdoa. This misstep gives me the nagging feeling that you may be playing a very good scum game... How could you forget your claim?

What do the others think about this? Please, answer me, I think this is very important.