[SPOILERS] enough is ENOUGH! scooter opens some windows and finishes first!

[scooter]

Random: Seven, how did you create this map? Or rather, how did you create the mirrored sections? Is there an easy way to create a section and then duplicate it several times, or did you have to duplicate it by hand in worldbuilder?

[SevenSpirits]

I used worldbuilder edits to a single copy, interspersed with opening the file in MapView (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=305168) for copy/paste. Mapview is a fairly crappy program and it also screws up the info at the start of the WBsave, so there was a bit of text editor copy/pasting involved too.

[scooter]

I used worldbuilder edits to a single copy, interspersed with opening the file in MapView (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=305168) for copy/paste. Mapview is a fairly crappy program and it also screws up the info at the start of the WBsave, so there was a bit of text editor copy/pasting involved too.

So you did the major copy/paste part in Mapview and then had to clean up a couple things in a text editor? I'm just trying to gauge the difficulty of doing something like this for a future game - the mirrored starts portion.

[scooter]

Back on topic - quick dotmapping of the southeast with what we know. First off, Sailing will now be a priority and will have to come either directly before or directly after Maths. I'm leaning towards before, so AH-Myst-Writing-Sailing-Maths. So with that in mind, I need to dot on the town and work around that. If I go for the site where I can split off the RR mine it looks like this:



The problem here is it means I'd have to hurry and grab blue so I can get a coastal site capable of getting a galley out. Also, red is pretty bleh. I could still found on that plains S of the Oasis, but that just makes this dotmapping train-wreck even worse. Alternatively, a slightly more attractive dotmap that has less capital overlap (so I have to suck up and deal with the fact that I'll spend time not working the RR mine):



In this case, red is quite nice. There is one lake tile completely killed by this plan, but that happens sometimes.

One problem with this whole town settling is just that defending that city could be weird. I mean, the good part is EVERY attack would have to be amphibious so I stack some defensive units in it and it'll be obnoxious to attack, but the risk of it being boated by Lewwyn is still pretty high if I don't pile a good amount of units into it. Given it's value to the economy, it's a high-risk target too. So I'll likely have to go overboard with defenders on the city. I'm also going to need to really hurry to get to this before Lewwyn, so yes, Sailing is pretty important here to say the least. Might do it before Writing actually now that I think about it.

[SevenSpirits]

So you did the major copy/paste part in Mapview and then had to clean up a couple things in a text editor? I'm just trying to gauge the difficulty of doing something like this for a future game - the mirrored starts portion.

Basically the WBsave has settings, leaders, and civs, and then the map tile by tile. I just delete the old tile by tile part and copy in the new one from the file that MapView made, because Mapview screws up the settings/leaders/civs part.

So there is a little bit of drudgery but it's not particularly difficult.

[dazedroyalty]

An island city can supply a better trade route to every single one of your homeland cities. There's no limit; Dazed I have no idea where you got that idea. So one island city ASAP and a second at Currency always pays off. Two more with the Great Lighthouse, naturally.

Ha! I think i just assumed domestic routes worked like foreign ones since all my cities can't trade with another team's capital.

Yeah so settling on that town (and pillaging it down first) is very high priority right now.

I'll need to think about this. It's short-term vs long-term. Dazed, any thoughts on this? Well, this isn't something that needs to be decided right this second - we can decide much closer to when we actually get Currency - by then we'll have a better picture of where we stand in comparison to everyone else.

PBEM29 spoiler:

Well, I was chatting with Krill about my plan in that game and he was pretty adamantly against the early academy when doing Settler spam. This game situation is a little different in that Krill was speaking to getting a Great Scientist->Academy as my first Great PErson, but practically speaking, it's a similar in game situation. However, I like T-Hawk's point that we will want it sooner than later tho. I do think we should wait and see how things go closer to the time when it matters. My gut is it will depend on what we feel the greatest need for. Even if we're not teching quickly, the Academy will boost the speed we do it at--so we'll just have to decide how badly we need to tech in the immediate and near future

Back on topic - quick dotmapping of the southeast with what we know.

I'm not gonna respond to all of your dotmapping plans (i'm at work, y'know! ), but I do think that you're probably overly stuck on the RR plains hill. The second dotmap Red dot is the best city option to get the island settled asap. I agree we should sneak sailing in. Also we could still settle 4447 of the red dot and overlap to work the RR PH if you really want to.

[Krill]

Yeah, that's actually one of the reasons why the GLH can break a game wide open even in AW, at least on some maps.

[scooter]

Yeah - an academy with the first great person on this kind of thing is pointless, but with the second or third it's pretty logical as it'd be really useful come mid-game and still beneficial before then. The third one (as a scientist) would take quite awhile to get unless I landed Great Library or something in which case it'd still take awhile. So I'll need to figure out if I want to go for that scientist with slot 2 or get the merchant with slot 2, bulb MC, and hope I can eventually get a scientist with slot 3. Either way, I think we can safetly put off this decision until closer to Currency and we'll then have a much better idea of what's most important.

As for the dotmap, I wasn't taking the RR hill overlap thing very seriously - just putting it up for comparison - I like the 2nd one much better.

Yeah, that's actually one of the reasons why the GLH can break a game wide open even in AW, at least on some maps.

I was thinking that. If I can secure more than 2 islands, GLH will be awfully tempting and probably a decent idea - especially with the general lack of good cottage land.

[scooter]

T29 spies a Quecha

Lewwwynnnnnnn.



If you even pillage that pasture and there turns out to be horse there... Death will occur. I've adjusted my warriors from No Light (pictured) and the one from the RR mine of Holocene (not pictured) so the two of them will team up and chase him away and/or kill him if I can trap him. If he enters my borders I'll certainly kill him. Swapped to the gold in No Light:



Doing 1 more turn of 0%, then I can buzz through AH in 3 turns. Adjusted Simple Math:



The fastest I can grow is 2T regardless of what tile I work, so borrowing Holocene's mine let's me get the 1food required and still get a good amount of hammers. Holocene then swaps to the FP workshop:



Granary next here. Demos:



Works for me.

[scooter]

Didn't include it in the last post because I was short on time, but I got Brian's graphs on this past turn. Now I did lose Lewwyn's graphs in the process, but I was 4 EPs from Brians and 1 from Lewwyn's, so I chose to see Brian's. Hopefully soon I'll be able to hang onto both of them every turn. So first, I'll start with my worst graph:



Granted, he's getting 2 culture from every city so I'm guessing that's at least 6 cpt at this point plus he's getting an extra 2 EPs which I believe counts towards GNP, so he's getting 6-8 GNP just from stuff that doesn't matter, so it's a bit closer than it looks. Power graph:



Doesn't really say much - we're about even and I'm running a moderately light military and definitely don't have more military techs than him, so he obviously has less warriors than me. He actually hasn't built any in awhile, so he's pumping settlers/workers right now I'd assume. The MFG screen seems to back up that theory:



During the flatline his mfg went up, so yeah, that's what's going on for him it seems. I obviously hold a solid edge here, and the food one is more pronounced:



Just 29T in this doesn't mean much, but it's something to keep an eye on. If I had Lewwyn too, I'd guess Lewwyn would be about even with Brian on food/mfg despite a much slower starting situation. Still, these graphs don't really mean anything conclusive quite yet just because of how much these can change based on who is on what part of their building cycle. Still, it's interesting to look at and gives us something to talk about so there's that!