[SPOILERS] don't call it a comeback [luddite comes back]

[Whosit]

I've been hearing that swords have seen great success in PB18, in some situations even better than Knights (I think). You'll have to dig through some threads there to confirm that, though.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

I've been hearing that swords have seen great success in PB18, in some situations even better than Knights (I think). You'll have to dig through some threads there to confirm that, though.

I'll have to wait a little while to do that but I encourage you to use them to make your enemies cower in fear!

[luddite]

I've been hearing that swords have seen great success in PB18, in some situations even better than Knights (I think). You'll have to dig through some threads there to confirm that, though.

Oh, do they? That's cool. I've been avoiding reading any of the current game threads in case there's a chance to sub in.

[luddite]

I've been screwing around with some sandbox games using the PB1 map and the Ruby the Rails mod or whatever it's called. One thing I've noticed is that I have to think about starting techs very carefully. There's lots of forests on that map, and it's normal speed, so chopping is very powerful. But the techs are expensive, too. Hunting/Mining seem like great starting techs, now that hunting is more expensive and unlocks pastures. Civs with Hunting/Mining: Germany, Russia, Khmer, and Ethiopia. Of those, I think I like Khmer the best- an aqueduct that gives +1 food is nothing to sneeze at.

Or if I start with an agriculture resource then korea or china become good civs, for ag/mining. And of course Inca and India are always good.

[NobleHelium]

Ruby the Rails mod

[luddite]

So there's been a change of plans- apparently we're no longer using the PB1 map, but a script that will produce a similar looking map. And more specifically, Seven posted this:

Note also that the original map used a script that placed an insanely high number of grasslands and forests. I'm planning to use a more standard number. Again let me know if you object.

So chopping may not be as good as I thought. Maybe Ye Olde ag/wheel combo and early cottages is the way to go. Or a hunting/wheel civ- that would include, uh... *looks at CFC* mongolia, and only mongolia.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

So there's been a change of plans- apparently we're no longer using the PB1 map, but a script that will produce a similar looking map. And more specifically, Seven posted this:

Note also that the original map used a script that placed an insanely high number of grasslands and forests. I'm planning to use a more standard number. Again let me know if you object.

So chopping may not be as good as I thought. Maybe Ye Olde ag/wheel combo and early cottages is the way to go. Or a hunting/wheel civ- that would include, uh... *looks at CFC* mongolia, and only mongolia.

Tech costs have changed for several first row techs. Ag/Wheel/Hunting are now most expensive, followed by Myst/Mining, then Fishing is cheapest. The upshot of this is that with the change to Hunting that allows pastures (rather than at AH as previously), more civs are viable based on food resources present at the capital.

[luddite]

Yeah I know about the tech cost changes. That just makes hunting even better as a starting tech.

[SevenSpirits]

[luddite]

Hmm... that's a tricky one.

If I settle in place, I get a plains hill plant (losing one forest), an oasis, a forested deer that's hard to get to, and what looks like a flood plains hidden by the fog. So it's very good initially but the long term potential seems kinda low. I can only build one riverside cottage, and there's no seafood, and quite a lot of plains. 4 hills makes it good for production though, and there's at least 5 forests to chop (not counting the deer or the tile E-SE that's in the fog and not visible. There could be horses metal hidden here too, which would make the production even better. So one option is to settle in place and use this as a unit/wonder pump. Especially with the nerfed slavery, that'll be important. But I'm worried about over-expanding and teching too slowly.

Another option would be to pick a financial leader. That would give an early +1 commerce from the oasis, and later give me significant extra commerce from those coastal and flat non-river tiles. Then either mine the hills and make it a hybrid production-commerce city, or put windmills on them later. That seems like the only way to get decent money out of this city, unless I go full on specialist economy.

Of course there's also that river visible in the south. I can't see much of it without moving the scout, but the bleed-through seems to be (from left to right) a flood plains, forest plains, and another flood plains. A city on the plains hill 2S of the settler would be guaranteed a minimum of oasis, deer, 3 floodplains, for +8 food surplus, and likely more if there's more floodplains or another food resource on the other side. I'd lose the sheep but so be it- I can pick it up with another city in the future. There's still 4 hills available if I need production, but now there's at least 5 ? riverside tiles that I can cottage. And at least 4 forests free to chop, so likely no loss in that respect either. Main loss of course is the two turns that it would take to move there, although that's partially made up by getting to work forested-deer instead of oasis initially. Or at least, that makes up some of the lost production but makes for even more lost commerce.

Let's see... other possibilities? plains hill 1E doesn't seem to offer much, just loses the deer and takes a gamble on the fog. Plains hill 2SW is even more of a gamble. I suppose I could move the settler 1SW on the first turn, while moveing the scout SW and SE, so then i preserve the option to go either direction with the settler. But i'd be surprised if 2SW offers anything worth losing the oasis for.

I'll have to do some sims but I think I'm leaning towards settling 2S. With a civ that starts with Ag/Wheel or Hunting/Wheel I could tech AH then Pottery, and I think I'll have time for my worker to immediately camp the deer then immediately start building cottages. Probably I'll want a leader who's not financial or expansive- financial doesn't help with all those river tiles, and expansive would make the first worker come out too early (maybe).