Rebalancing Civ4: RtR Mod

[WilliamLP]

Free Speech and State Property being available in different columns skews the civic choices such that it is generally always right to snowball with maximum workshops (EDIT: perhaps better phrased as minimum cottages to fund expansion and tech to Currency) to capture cottages from others, and then get the bonus from FS because there are no other relevant civics to use in that column.

Nerfing FS down to the general power level causes even more of a skew in the cottage and workshop balance. Putting that power in cottages in the early game in an attempt to balance this limits the meaningful choice between cottages and workshops. There is a consequent move back towards cottage cheese strategies, where growing pop on cottages is generally the right choice unless you have dire food surplus due to food poor maps so farms become more useful. It also makes mines less useful with the increase in the power of slavery etc. Putting the strength of FS into the Town tile does solve the issue either, as the profit from running workshops and taking cottages is not changed...and even enables the use of other civics so can be even more profitable.

By moving FS out of Legal, you've removed a pretty strong force in BtS that pushes toward building cottages. Just because it's also a force encouraging conquering cottages doesn't mean it makes building them early weaker, does it? Unless you're saying conquering mature cottages is easier than building them, but then something that encourages conquest in the era when cottages are mature is a good thing, isn't it?

I don't know if it's an intended consequence of yours or not, but in the current incarnation you've also strengthened the power (and maybe necessity?) of a super-capital compared to a more horizontal empire, by having Bureau be the best peaceful choice for the whole game instead of just half of it.

[Krill]

Hmm. Sufficed to say that from what I've read in lurker threads, the second point isn't true. For the former, there are levels of necessity in building cottages. There is a minimum needed to research a basic level of tech regardless of what else you intend to do, and that is map and leader dependent. I disagree that moving FS has that effect provided it's strong enough to stack up against FM and SP, other than it's a choice that is part of your game strategy. Using fewer cottages because you have a plan to run people over at knights is not a problem, it's a gambit. Having FS and SP in the same civic column forces the choice of what terrain improvement you want to focus on using, in the context of each game; only if one civic is brokenly OP compared to the other is that decision taken out of a players hands. I also don't think there is a lack of warfare after T150...how many people died in PB13?

EDIT: To be explicit, late game Bureau costs an arm and a leg to run, and the cost in F3 also gets affected by inflation. Nat and Env actually fit niches and I've seen arguments over the strength of each. If the problem is instead phrased as a lack of choice in the mid game with Bureaucracy and Vassalage, then perhaps that is an argument for minor buffs to vassalage such as dropping the cost to low.

[Cyneheard]

Slightly different topic:
Does the Impi need to keep Mobility?

If it was a spear with just 2 moves, it would still be very good (and equally valuable as a stack protector for mounted units). But right now it's more mobile than Chariots and HAs (Keshik excepted - but the Keshik doesn't change how you kill a stack of 2-movers). An Impi rush can also sneak with less warning than a chariot rush, because they can sometimes go through hills and forests that block visibility.

We've also implicitly buffed Zulu by the Barracks changes, and by making Hunting a stronger tech.

Maybe the better question is: "if we were designing the Impi today, would we include Mobility?"
Answer: Why would we? It's already a non-mounted Chariot with +100% against Mounted instead of +100% Attack against axemen. What else does it need?

[Krill]

Zulu will be nerfed. The main question is how, March might not be enough (probably isn't). I'm waiting to see what the PB20 tech cost changes (scaling and starting tech costs) are like, because depending on them an awful lot of civs can be reverted to the original state.

Or everyone could be in uproar at such an idea and I'll just nuke the Impi.

[Commodore]

I'd just remove mobility and see if that's enough, myself...

Request: Make *at least* the second religious missionary spread 100% chance. There is RNG bullshit and then there is losing 40h for no damn good reason at all ever.

[Ruff_Hi]

What is the promotion 'secretive' (-1 range visibility) for?

[Gawdzak]

What is the promotion 'secretive' (-1 range visibility) for?

Spies.

[spacetyrantxenu]

What is the promotion 'secretive' (-1 range visibility) for?

Spies.

More specifically, to combat the all seeing, all knowing and nigh unstoppable spy sentry network.

[mackoti]

I just found that great persons after 1000 are avaible just form 200 on 200 , krill could you corect this at least in this mod?

[Gawdzak]

Anyway we can add a Protective/Organized leader?

If you do,I promise I will pick it.