Realms Beyond Fantasy Football 2013-14 - Time to beat the Brit

[sunrise089]

This game is pretty grandly absurd.

+1. My wife, taking a rare interest in football, questioned my helpful yelled at the TV advice for the Giants to go for it on 4th and 2. She wondered whether that was too dangerous, and I won her over by pointing out the odds Dallas could avoid a fumble and/or interception if they took possession deep in their own territory seemed quite slim

[wetbandit]

I'm sure glad those replacement refs are gone. The regular refs we have ensure things like the outcome of the Packers first game doesn't have the deciding score come from a misunderstanding of the rules.

After looking at the rulebook, granted the 2012 edition, I believe two reasonable conclusions may be drawn. The NFL rulebook is structured Rule-Section-Article; all by number. I'll refer to them as such ##-##-##.

Let's start with some definitions, because the NFL rulebook was written by awful people while they were drinking. These are spoilered because they are not the thrust of my point, so you should skip ahead as you'd probably want to stab out your eyes without context for the rules in the spoiler. Refer back to these if you'd like.

DEAD BALL
3-2-2 A Dead Ball is one that is not in play. The time period during which the ball is dead is Between Downs. This
includes the interval during all time outs (including intermission) and from the time the ball becomes dead until it is legally
put in play.

3-11-2a
DEAD BALL FOUL
(a) A Dead Ball Foul (or a subsequent foul) is a personal foul (12-2) or unsportsmanlike foul (12-3) that occurs after a
down ends and before the next snap or free kick (14-5). See 14-1-7 to 14-1-10.

3-11-2c
DOUBLE FOUL
© A Double Foul is a foul by each team during the same down and includes any multiple foul by either team, including
dead ball fouls (14-3).

12-2-6
Unnecessary Roughness. There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be limited
to:

(b) contacting a runner when he is out of bounds;

14-1-7
DEAD BALL FOULS
A dead ball foul is enforced from the succeeding spot, and the down counts.

14-1-8
DEAD BALL FOULS (yes, there are two sections headed "DEAD BALL FOULS")
Dead ball fouls by both teams are offset at the succeeding spot and the down counts, except when one or both
are disqualifying fouls, or as provided in 14-1-9. See 14-3-2.

14-1-9
FOUL AND DEAD BALL FOUL
If there has been a foul by either team during a down and there is a dead ball foul by the other team in the action
immediately after the end of the down, it is a double foul, and all rules for enforcement of double fouls apply (see 14-3-1).

14-3-1
DOUBLE FOUL WITHOUT CHANGE OF POSSESSION
If there is a double foul (3-11-2-c) without a change of possession, the penalties are offset and the down is
replayed at the previous spot. If it was a scrimmage down, the number of the next down and the necessary line is the
same as for the down for which the new one is substituted. (SENTENCE WRITING FTW)

14-3-2
DOUBLE FOUL WITH CHANGE OF POSSESSION (CLEAN HANDS)
If there is a double foul (3-11-2-c) during a down in which there is a change of possession, the team gaining
possession must keep the ball after enforcement for its foul, provided its foul occurred after the change of possession
(clean hands).

1. The Mike Pereira Version (play should have resulted in 4th and 2)

Rule 14-1-8 provides that dead ball fouls are offset, the down counts, and play resumes at the previous spot. The penalties assessed were unnecessary roughness to Clay Matthews and Joe Staley, after the ball was carried out of bounds. The rule is specific and applies exactly to this situation.


2. The Alternate Explanation, or why Wetbandit is fun at parties (play stands as called)

Unnecessary roughness is a dead ball foul(3-11-2a). There were two unnecessary roughness penalties after 3rd down. Dead ball fouls are included in the definition of a double foul(3-11-2-c). Rule 14-3-1 states (with header):

DOUBLE FOUL WITHOUT CHANGE OF POSSESSION
If there is a double foul (3-11-2-c) without a change of possession, the penalties are offset and the down is
replayed at the previous spot. If it was a scrimmage down, the number of the next down and the necessary line is the
same as for the down for which the new one is substituted.

That last sentence is atrocious. Let's parse it: The number of the next down and the necessary line of scrimmage is the same as the down which needs to be replayed.

So, we have two unnecessary roughness penalties, which constitutes a double foul. A double foul without change of possession results in offset and the down is replayed.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I think #1 is probably the correct ruling, because that rule specifically addresses the situation which occurred. It's possible to come to another conclusion, as shown in #2.

[wetbandit]

This game is pretty grandly absurd.

+1. My wife, taking a rare interest in football, questioned my helpful yelled at the TV advice for the Giants to go for it on 4th and 2. She wondered whether that was too dangerous, and I won her over by pointing out the odds Dallas could avoid a fumble and/or interception if they took possession deep in their own territory seemed quite slim

You know, now that I remember, I think I recall seeing your name in the comments at Brian Burke's site. You have a fellow TV-yeller-at-er.

I was happy that the 49ers went for it on 4th and 2 with 3 minutes left in a situation where a few teams would punt.

[NobleHelium]

I'm pretty sure most teams would have punted in the 9ers situation...I think they would have won even if they had punted.

[NobleHelium]

wetbandit I don't see how you can go with explanation #2. If #2 were the case then section 14-1-8 would be totally useless and wouldn't be in the rulebook at all.

[wetbandit]

wetbandit I don't see how you can go with explanation #2. If #2 were the case then section 14-1-8 would be totally useless and wouldn't be in the rulebook at all.

The main support for #1 is that it is very specific whereas the second situation requires some locomotion to get there. Your point shares the same vein. So, yes, I believe that we arrive at the same point, albeit, the point still lies that the NFL should tighten up their rulebook.

[Lewwyn]

As long as Romo keeps slinging it I'm happy.

[pindicator]

As long as Romo keeps slinging it I'm happy.

He could sling it to the other team a couple times and make me happy

[wetbandit]

He could sling it to anyone but Cruz...

[NobleHelium]

Yeah I think sunrise is going to win.