[Spoiler] Suboptimal's Next Attempt at Lurker Frustration

[Alhambram]

For now suzerainity of Geneva don't sound bad idea, it boosts your science which is a plus already and meanwhile we can make use of time for Military Training boost.
Keep in mind two things however: Canada can conquer Geneva by declaring you war and Geneva automatically declares upon Canada due being our suzerain.
Secondly it is going harder for us to conquer Geneva if we are planning that with all envoys invested from other players, we might need frigates to deal with Geneva.

[suboptimal]

Canada could declare war BUT I'd have 5 turns' notice since they can't declare a surprise war. Geneva's defense strength would be 23 after it gets its third envoy. Galleys would be attacking (one at a time) at a CS of 34. If the city starts to build walls before I can get there then I'll have to leave it be.

I'm thinking about getting a horse out to provide a land-based attacker for Geneva (and possibly Yerevan) since one galley attacking at a time would take too long. I think the best way to do that would be to not build a third galley out of Compo and build a horse instead. Cleggy could build one but I want that city to build walls after its second galley to get the Engineering boost out of the way for Aqueducts. I won't have iron mined until at least Turn 85 so swords for Geneva are out (but not for Yerevan).

A few of more things in the forward-looking department...

- I'm just going to finish Masonry without the boost. It's two turns and I don't expect to have a quarry for 10 turns. The third charge of Truly's builder would then not be dedicated to a quarry - I could do a stone harvest into something (horse? barracks?), a second rice farm, an earlier camp at Cleggy or send it over to Compo for a wine plantation.
- One of the builder charges at the Iron Coast location is going to be for a farm. With a rice farm at Truly and a wheat farm at Armagh (if I capture the builder) that'd put me halfway to the Feudalism inspiration. I could then get a builder out (likely from Compo) to get three more farms down. I'm also not above a builder purchase to get this done, either.

[suboptimal]

Turn 68

I was considering building the Temple of Artemis at Cleggy but that’s now out of the question as Unmet Player has built it. Looking at the scores “Unmet Player” is Ichabod. Oh well...I’ll find something else cheap to build (and a location to put it) for Theater Square adjacency.

Cleggy has grown, Ancestral Hall completes in Foggy. Games & Recreation has two turns left on it, switch over to Mysticism, also with 2 turns to go. Gong to get that envoy, pop it into Geneva and hopefully suzerain it for a boost and some era points. Foggy resumes the settler (now due in 4 turns) and I promote Magnus with Provision. Policies stay as-is.

I’ve decided that I will carry through with completing Masonry but will delay completing it for a couple of turns. Originally I was going to build a wall in Cleggy after the ships are done and there wouldn’t have been enough time to get the eureka at Truly. However, the timing on Military Training is such that I can slot Veterancy the turn after Cleggy’s last galley completes. That means I’ll build the lighthouse there first to get a trade route and more housing. I’m going to put next turn into Masonry, then complete Horseback Riding, Irrigation, Masonry and Wheel before working Iron Working, Construction and Engineering. Actually, I need to figure out what order to do those last three in...I think it’ll be Engineering first to get Aqueducts down. Mountain Silk will chop in walls for the eureka for that.

Compo will build a horse instead of a third galley and then get a builder out for a rice farm, wine plantation and sheep pasture. Truly will finish its builder then complete the Encampment and a watermill (for the Construction eureka). The builder is going to farm a rice, chop the forest and then farm the other rice. Those rice farms will both eventually get districts on top of them but that, plus Armagh, will get me to 4/6 on farms for Feudalism.

Builder positions on the next forest to chop (hill forest NE of Foggy) and will chop that the turn after the settler completes. Archer advances to lake cattle to keep tabs on the north. Scout moves to jungle NW of wines and finds only a Swiss archer on the Horse Hill spot. Galley and warrior move to just outside Armagh’s borders. The resource in the fog was crabs and the 3-charge builder is still sitting in the marsh. No units are in sight.

Second southern galley due in two turns, as is the second Harbor Shipping project. Provided everything holds until then I should have Themistocles. I won’t immediately retire him, though. Instead I’ll use him to scout out ahead of the galleys for a while, then retire him later on, likely when I’m ready to complete Shipbuilding. That saves me the maintenance cost on the quadrireme and scout around a bit faster. Still on pace to have the Irrigation boost and suzerainty at Armagh on Turn 72. Speaking of Armagh…




The tile SE of the crabs appears to be a coast tile (contrast with the edge of the fogged tile SW of the fish). I think that once I’ve got suzerainty I’ll move the lead galley to the spot east of the crabs, advance the rear galley to the current location of the galley and the declare war. The galley in Armagh’s territory should teleport to either the tile SE of the crabs or east of the fish with 2MP remaining. That’ll let me get 2 galley attacks in on the first turn while the warrior (hopefully) takes the builder. I’ll be able to then take the city the following turn (Turn 73) using both galleys and the warrior. The envoy I get should expand the city’s borders to the wheat. I’ll use the builder to farm the wheat, purchase the forest for a Veterancy chop for the RND and then put down a plains farm with the last charge. The city is a bit of a junker otherwise but the RND will count for something.

In the course of the “usual” checks I’ve discovered that Geneva has a source of Ivory in the fog...it’s on the tile NW of its Campus. The city-state’s largest problem is that it’s food-constrained. Without the fish or the jungle to the SW it has no available food resources. It is building a library, though, and does have a completed monument and granary.

Internationally I don’t see much change except for the wonder and some era scores. There are clearly two tiers of players right now – Ichabod/Woden/Kaiser and myself/Canada as the also rans right now. That’s good because Canada currently stands between me and everyone else. That’s bad because Canada stands between me and everyone else.

[suboptimal]

Turn 69

Mysticism and Masonry at one turn, switch over to Horseback Riding. Shipping project and second galley also both at one turn. Everything looks good for snagging Themistocles. I think even if Woden completed a project this turn I’d get first crack at the Great Person due to turn order and the fact he’d be a couple of GAP short. Well, that’s the hope, anyway. Perfect world he gets the admiral that gives a promotion and I’ll be able to get the one for fleets. That’d be more era points for me.

Settler at Foggy is at 2 turns instead of 3 and shows 110 complete instead of 99 or so. Wonder if my overflow from last turn got multiplied up this turn. . That’s fine by me. Doesn’t mess with the timing much and gets a city out faster.

Everyone at Armagh is coming back home:




I think the only way I get that builder (if I get the builder) is going to be to run for the coast. I move the warrior to the NE and back the galley off a tile just in case it’s the AI’s “rush home because there’s a unit on the border” mode. I want those warriors somewhere else in three turns, not in the city’s borders. Out west I move the scout northwards and see that Geneva’s archer has crossed the river. I also see that someone’s dropped Amani into the city, but since it’s “Unmet Player” I don’t know if that’s Canada or someone else. That’s a new development from last turn so she won’t establish for another four turns. Good thing I switched over to Mysticism. I’ll get suzerainty for a little bit next turn and then start considering a takeover.

[Alhambram]

Grab and jump in sea seems best thing to do for builder capture, however that archer can kill warrior quite fast when embarked.
Warrior can hide under galley, 2 galley with oligrachy strength of 29 should able to take Armagh as long its strength stays at 20 and no walls.
AI city states indeed tend to send their units home once there is foreign units nearby.

[suboptimal]

I'm hoping that backing off will make them disperse a little bit. I've also realized that there's not much need to worry about the warrior if it captures the builder. Provided I get a good teleport and can attack with both galleys on the first turn of war then I'd take the city on the second turn. That would mean the warrior only needs to withstand one turn of attacks.

The galleys attack at 34 as their base CS is 30. The warrior can't embark as I don't have Shipbuilding completed.

[suboptimal]

Turn 70

Horseback Riding and Mysticism complete, Shipbuilding eureka also comes in. Resume Masonry and Games & Recreation, both will complete next turn. No policy changes to make. I’ve got an envoy, a new galley, and what’s this? Why, it’s an admiral looking to join my fleet...Themistocles is mine. He appears in Cleggy. Next admiral up is Gaius Duilus (form a fleet out of a naval unit). That would have made for a nice consolation prize. Woden will likely get Gaius, unless I get RNDs down so fast that I can actually lap him (Woden has 36 points @ 2/turn, so 12 turns to go, so not likely). However, I should get the last Classical admiral in 14 turns (I carried 4 points over), if not less. Hmmm….if I capture that builder at Armagh I could very well lap him….

I also have a “you met someone” notification. Who would that be? Why, Canada:




I crack open a Câlice de Esti Spumante (maple flavored, of course) and check out the diplo situation…they’ve met one other civ and are in Oligarchy. They’re at 29, 20, 170 milpower (to my now-190 milpower), so that makes me the low man on the research totem pole. He’s got three cities on the deal screen, Bruins (Encampment) and Kings (Campus). Wonder if this, originally being CMF, means his capital is Blues? We’re both in the first column of the Classical Age on the tech tree, he’s in the Military Training column of the civics tree (I’ll be there next turn). The Encampment in Bruins is placed since he’s accumulated no Great General points yet. This seems to be confirmed by my score tracking, which has indicated two districts (for what that’s worth). He’s completed his 10th tech this past turn and his 11th civic. He is, however, only making 2 per turn.

Since I’m dealing with Canada I suzerain Geneva with my envoy. This causes me to discover the Matterhorn and...Egypt?




So...Kaiser...44, 30, 241 milpower and pulling down 16 per turn. He’s got 12 techs and 12 civics complete, though the tech tree display is incorrect – he shows as being in the same column as myself but he’s got a Commercial Hub placed in one of his cities. He’s got iron and horses and four cities on the deal screen and is in Autocracy. One city has two horses, the other has two iron and he’s got 16 gold per turn. His strongest unit is a swordsman or a horseman. And look at all those mountains! He’s also got truffles hooked up so he’s got some land on a different continent somewhere to the west. I also gave him 5 era points since he’s the first to meet all four opponents. I did pull down 6 era score myself so getting the golden age for the Classical is reachable.

Since I’ve now met people I see that Canada has Amani in Geneva and two envoys in Yerevan while Kaiser has two envoys in Geneva. Looks like I’ll hold onto suzerainty for a bit here. I’ll have another envoy in four turns in case I need it. I also take a second look at Yerevan given the presence of Matterhorn "close" by. Turns out that "rogue" wasn't Mount Everest but an incense that isn't revealed because I haven't actually defogged that tile (same deal as the fish at Armagh).

The interesting news here is that the area for Horse Hill sits at the nexus of all three civs. Canada is in the fog to the SW and Egypt is on the other side of Geneva, a mountain range and Canada. My scout is going to probe Canada’s borders and moves off in that direction now.

This also changes my plans quite a bit. I don’t think taking Geneva is a good move at this point. I also can only get past the city-state via the sea if I’m suzerain or if there’s a northern coastal pass up and around. Instead of building more galleys in Cleggy I’m going to get going on its +3 Campus and use Themistocles to do my northern scouting. I’ll complete that and then build the lighthouse and then on to builder → settler to get the area NE of Truly settled. Compo starts its horseman as planned. This also means that I’ll likely not build a fourth settler out of the capital and switch it over to military units. Need some more defense here, I think. I don’t know if Horse Hill is a viable or wise location to settle – it’s at -12 loyalty, I’m small man on the totem pole and I wouldn’t be able to hold it if attacked.

I was going to send the first settler to Mountain Silk but instead I’m going to the Ullswater Coast. That forms a solid border across the land mass and will prevent Canada’s archer from probing further east than that. It also confirms my plan to chop out walls (stone + jungle) at Mountain Silk when I get there.

Since I’m no longer building galleys out of Cleggy I can also unslot Maritime Industries. I plug in Maneuver to speed up the horse build. That cuts Compo’s build time to 6 turns. The new galley repositions near Armagh. The troops are still on recall but I stay clear of the borders with the warrior. Don’t think they’re going to disperse and a third warrior has shown up. I’ll only get the builder if I can capture it when I take the capital since it’s been covered by a warrior. It should retreat to the city center when I declare.

Up north I send Themistocles...north...and find a coastal dead end. I’ll start heading west and

Despite my backwards state I might be in an OK spot from a metagame perspective. While Canada seems wedged between myself and Egypt, dragons lurk on the other side of the latter, namely Woden and Ichabod, both of whom have caught and started to surpass Kaiser. I think if either of my neighbors attempts to throw their forces at me they’ll have their other front to deal with. The issue I do have, and what I need military for, is that one third of my milpower is at sea. The good news is that I’d have a single front to deal with, at least, until someone crosses the ocean from the east.

Time to see if I can mount some sort of catch up here. The good news is that the next few techs are cheapies and I’m actively lining up eurekas. I just need to get settled, consolidated and hold things together long enough to start the process of getting my intended industrial zones up and running.

[Alhambram]

Finally met Canada and unexpectly Egypt too!
At first view it is worrying that Kaiser got double science and culture comparded with us, that shouldn't be case for too much longer.

We seems have drawn a isolated start which resulted in meeting fewer earlier science and culture city states (Kaiser's very early civics has to be due meeting culture city state).
Also we lacks a mountain ranges into our direct surrounding of Foggy with paltry 1/2 adjacent science for our campuses while others can achieve +4 or more adjaceny.
It is easy to say it now but we should have picked Goddess of Festival Pantheon back then, but at that moment map visiblity was narrow and both ivory and plantations rescources seemed to be equal and I hoped for more ivory or deers in fog, but unfortunately.

But it is too early to give up, we still has one more promotion for Pingala, right. Also when hitting golden age, we can pick free injuiry for science bonus for RND's . Need to build monuments or theater districts though to catch up with civics.
Also as you pointed out, we just have one landbased front, a easier time to defend English cities.
I argee that plan to capture Geneva should put at hold on for while till we graps understanding between us, Canada and Egypt.

[suboptimal]

IIRC Goddess of Festivals for plantations wasn't available when we had the pantheon come in. I'm willing to bet that when I expose a Canadian city center that Canada got that one via Yerevan. Further analysis coming shortly....

[suboptimal]

I cast Wall of Text
wherein I idly and incorrectly speculate about the game solely for your entertainment (or torture)

Right….so having had some time to think about last turn’s developments I think I’m not as bad off as I initially feared. For starters, I’m helped out by a couple of different inferences about the map…

- Canada has only met Egypt and myself. This leads me to believe that Canada is cut off from Brazil/Phoenicia by Egypt.
- Kaiser, while running away early has been caught up with and likely has one of the other two “heavyweights” on his western border. That should keep him from casting his eyes towards my backwards neck of the woods.
- Given the population sizes I’ve seen in Canada and Egypt (nothing larger than 5 population) I have to assume that culture and science is being generated by city-states, Pingala and natural wonders (and maybe sphinxes), with one or two high-adjacency Campus districts tossed in. I can’t figure out how they’re getting yields that high unless they’re in a “better” part of the map.

So, what to do? Well, expand for one. My and is going to largely be driven by population, at least until I get some Theater Squares online. A lighthouse and some housing-granting improvements at Cleggy will have the city at 10 pop in no time. The Ullswater Coast will grow quickly with jungle chops though Mountain Silk and Iron Coast will be constrained due to a lack of housing. There is a temptation to go back to settling on the iron to alleviate the housing issue at Iron Coast, but then I need to find a spot for a third mine (and it kills the city’s available production).

I think once Armagh is captured I’ll send one galley to clear the fog from the eastern tip of the landmass while the other heads towards (and past) Yerevan. Themistocles will explore as far as Geneva to see if there’s anything tucked away to the north. I need to see if there are any coastal cultural or scientific city-states further along the land mass. I have one envoy coming in four turns and a second coming when I complete Military Training. I’ll hold onto both of them for placement in any “useful” city-states I find. Likewise, while being suzerain of Geneva is nice I won’t attempt to contest it if Canada or Egypt take it from me. Libraries at Cleggy and Foggy would be a “quick” 8. However, that’s a ways off for both cities (get to that in a bit).

For military I’ve got the horseman getting built at Compo and have a slinger I could upgrade at Truly. Foggy will have an “open” build queue after the third settler is out after Turn 75, so I can crank out another horse or two (or slot Agoge and spit out some warriors).

Current city plans are as follows:

Foggy: Settler (completed “now”) → Settler (EoT72) → Settler (EoT75) → ? If things are “stable” I’ll build another settler for area NE of Truly – ideally the coast but if I need the era points then at Kilimanjaro.

Truly: Builder (completed “now”) → Encampment (complete EoT74) → Watermill (complete EoT81). The city will be gaining a housing along with two rice farms and will be food-flush. The Campus (+1) could be built in 6 turns or I could get a barracks built.

Cleggy: Campus (EoT76) → Lighthouse (EoT82) → Trader (EoT90 est) → Library (EoT94). The trader will be used for a route from Mountain Silk → Foggy (32), Cleggy → Foggy (32roduction) or Cleggy → Geneva (61). I’m leaning Cleggy → Foggy as that puts Cleggy into the low 20’s for and I can use the roads to move units to the front lines easily. I could also build a settler out of here if Foggy gets bogged down on military builds. There’s a forest to chop up here but I’d rather save it for a lumbermill. This city will become my first production powerhouse.

Compo: Horseman (EoT75) → Lighthouse (EoT85) → Builder. I’m building the lighthouse because I’ll have Veterancy slotted. As for the trade route, if I built the trader I’d likely go Mountain Silk → Foggy or perhaps Compo → Truly to boost production here. The builder would be for a rice farm, wine plantation and a sheep pasture.

Ullswater Coast: Chop out the western jungles for a two population boost and to complete the RND. Third builder charge would be for whales for the amenity. I’d follow the RND with a military unit and then put up walls as soon as Limes is available.

Mountain Silk: Plantation the higher-yield silk resource, harvest the stone to the SE and then the jungle to the NW for population and to clear the spot for an Aqueduct. The harvests would go into walls which the city should complete. It might get to 3 population by Turn 91 but once I complete Engineering this city will build the Aqueduct before anything else. When the time gets closer I’ll see if I can figure out how to

Iron Coast: if I settle SE of the iron then I’ll mine the iron, chop the forest for the RND and put down a farm. The city would work on a Granary then a Lighthouse to solve its housing issues and get a trade route to Foggy for production. I might still settle on the iron as it gives the city fresh water access and better placement for a Campus at 4 population.

Armagh: After capturing I’ll repair the monument first, granary second. If I capture the builder then I’ll purchase the forest to the NW and chop out the RND once Veterancy slots. If I’m unable to capture and hold onto the builder I may resort to purchasing one here (for 288) or using Iron Coast’s to chop out the RND and then have Truly build one for farm improvements at both cities.

Longer term the plan is to ensure my survival and continue working towards Engineering (Aqueducts), Military Engineering (niter, military engineers, armory) and Apprenticeship (Industrial Zones). Ideally I can get Foggy to 7 population and build its RND before Apprenticeship completes, as well as get Truly’s Campus complete. That would let me put down two discounted Industrial Zones, one each at Truly and Compo. I’d put an undiscounted one down at Cleggy since the city would have the production to build a full-cost district.

For techs the current intended path is Wheel → Irrigation → Engineering → Iron Working/Construction → Currency → Apprenticeship/Shipbuilding. For eurekas I’ve got Irrigation (rice farm at Truly), Engineering (walls at Mountain Silk), Construction (watermill @ Truly) and Apprenticeship (mines @ Cleggy & Iron Coast) figured out. Military Engineering will also get its eureka, I just don’t know which city would complete it first.

For civics I’ll complete Military Training then decide between Defensive Tactics or Drama & Poetry → Recorded History. I’ll likely do the former as that gets me a Pingala promotion faster. As for the other governor promotion I remain undecided. If Canada puts something south of Geneva then I might get Amani in preparation for giving her the loyalty malus promotion. Otherwise I might get Liang with the intent of getting her 20% district discount promotion to make getting out those Theater Squares a little easier.