[SPOILERS] PB9 Lurker Thread

[Lewwyn]

Qgqqqqq probably only reads about 20% of the words in a thread.

...Generous

[Ichabod]

Hey everyone,

Cornflakes asked me to post this for lurker review. He's asking for a reload due to the culture bug, where building culture to the point that it passes the threshold for a border pop gives another production phase. Apparently, he got another production phase leading to a chop planned to the Taj Mahal to go into a courthouse.

HOW DID THIS HAPPEN??? Q, did you queue up the Courthouse behind the Culture in Kayak or did I? And did the production phase happen twice? the city was set to build culture last turn ... I KNOW IT WAS, because the borders had't popped and I also have a screenshot. How did the two forests that I chopped earlier get dumped into a Courthouse????

I assume this falls into the category of "Misclick" and we can't ask for a reload?

AHAH! I remember now. This IS at known bug that I've seen discussed before, where building culture when the borders pop earns a free extra turn of production when something is queued up behind. Still probably not enough grounds for reload, but at least I know HOW it happened.

So, what do the lurkers think? Does this warrant a reload or not?

[Krill]

Not that I care much either way, but I think because it's a known mechanic/bug that sometimes helps, sometimes hinders, reloading when it doesn't help a player isn't particularly reasonable.

[Serdoa]

Depends on what else has happened in that turn or rather how far back they have to reload. If no combats in all those wars are involved I think it is fine to reload. I don't think that can be considered a misclick, especially as probably half the players of the game don't even know about this bug. That's not the same as mismoving a unit imo.

[Ichabod]

I think there were a bunch of combats on the to-be-reloaded turn, which, unfortunately for Cornflakes, make his request less liekly to be accepted. I agree with Serdoa, though, that this is not a misclick. Personally, I think this is a bug (at least the way I see it). In the friendly/casual atmosphere of the game, I think a reload should be granted if there was no war going on. The war makes things way more complicated.

To say the truth, I really don't think there'll be a reload. It's such a pity, though, seeing Cornflakes plan so well for what seems to be a 1-turn Taj Mahal and than the plan backfires due to a bug/really obscure mechanic.

[Serdoa]

If I see it correctly, I think the only combat that happened was Jowys LB in Rannoch defending and killing 3 of TT units. I think that could be handled (if both parties agree) by Jowy deleting the LB and TT deleting the units in question. Would skew the GG-counter though, not sure by how much.

So in theory I think a reload is possible under the circumstances. The question still of course is, is it warranted just because of this bug? I see Krrils point about it, but I'm not sure if it is fair to not grant a reload based on the bug sometimes helping. There is no evidence that it was used in that way by Cornflakes in this game. If it was, I certainly would be against a reload. But I think the general consensus on RB was not to use this bug, what imo also means that in case it is used a reload should happen, no matter if it helped or hindered, as it should not be used regardless.

[Sareln]

My opinion is that anytime you caught the culture bug it should be reloaded, since it magically creates hammers/culture points that weren't paid for. Help or Hinder, those CPs or Hammers shouldn't be in the game, so ditch'em.

[novice]

Not that I care much either way, but I think because it's a known mechanic/bug that sometimes helps, sometimes hinders, reloading when it doesn't help a player isn't particularly reasonable.

I don't have a strong opinion but I lean towards what Krill is saying. It reminds me of PB3 where Sandover had a warrior and a spear in the queue, and the two builds were collapsed into one, losing Sandover a lot of hammers. IIRC Sandover did get a reload... But in hindsight he probably shouldn't have.

[Serdoa]

I thought a little bit more about this, especially considering what led to this and I have to say, I don't get why Q even queued up the Courthouse in the first place. That might only be a minor detail, but I have to ask myself - especially considering that Q states all the time that he knew the bug and just forgot about it - what he actually intended there. Obviously they wanted to build Taj so queuing the Courthouse was unnecessary on all levels. For me it looks like he did try to use this exploit to gain a few free hammers into the Courthouse and forgot that 2 forests were already chopped while building culture. And in that case I sure would not grant a reload, simply because he shouldn't use that exploit in the first place.

[SevenSpirits]

The question is, what would you do if someone accidentally benefited from the culture bug? The answer is almost surely that you would play on. IMO that's what should happen here too.

(If someone intentionally benefits from the culture bug it's a little harder. I think some people still see it as a legitimate part of the game, and IMO we have not decided it's banned explicitly enough that it should be considered de facto banned in all games without any discussion. So my ruling would actually be that it's even allowed in this game, but I realize that this is more up for debate. But even if you disagree with me here, I think you need to admit that if he accidentally gained some hammers, a reload would not occur.)

They can ask for a reload like this: "We made a terrible micro error; could we please have a reload?"