Why isn't he just taking peace anyway? Those three cities are hardly worth anything any more. Is it the Spirit of Mindy? I can't bring myself to read any of that guy's posts.
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[NO PLAYERS] PB25 Lurker Thread - Then Happy I, That Lurk and am Belurked
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August 5th, 2015, 20:56
(This post was last modified: August 6th, 2015, 14:52 by GermanJoey.)
 (August 5th, 2015, 17:29)Bobchillingworth Wrote: Why isn't he just taking peace anyway? Those three cities are hardly worth anything any more. Is it the Spirit of Mindy? I can't bring myself to read any of that guy's posts. It seems that Mindy has fully convinced/brainwashed him into thinking that not controlling Gavagai's lands means that the game is over for them, when really that land doesn't/can't/won't-ever make any positive contribution to the HRE while Gavagai is still alive because of course he'll fight them to the death for it. Without dogpile help from Donovan or Tasunke, HAK needed to bail out when he missed that chance to wipe Gavagai's stack. That was it, the invasion had failed. He needed to just offer the land back and hope that Gav was mollified. (well, mollified enough to not want to destroy them relatively more than others) Or... maybe he could have even sold the cities back for gpt, with the peace treaty up to enforce the deal. That could have been really profitable and slowed Gav further, limiting his chances to take revenge. However, Mindy is convinced that "land=power," which, while a pretty good maxim to live by in the ancient, ignores that empires in Civ4 (and pretty much every 4X game) are actually three-dimensional. It turns out that building buildings sometimes is actually useful, who knew? Also, "land" doesn't mean anything if you're not using it. A handful of tiny cities that require the output of half your empire to just attempt to keep is, like... well, that's not land, that's just a hole.
August 6th, 2015, 14:53
(This post was last modified: August 6th, 2015, 14:53 by GermanJoey.)
Yeah, pretty much.
The population numbers was what I was curious about from the Victory screen... look at the difference between Commodore's population and HAK's. Commodore has 18% more land but 38% more population, and this is in light the Inca whipping themselves into the ground in the rush towards Knights and continuing to do so until Grimace was eliminated.
Yeah, HAK and Mindy have thrown away a really strong mid game position. They shouldn't have let Commodore settle that city at the bottleneck for starters, should have taken the island from Zulu and left Gavagai alone. Focused more on abusing EXP/ORG mid game cheap buildings and win Taj/Lib and putting indirect pressure on PRO/PHI that is burning out at that stage. You always force the obsoletion of Collosus ASAP to break Commodores tech ability as well.
August 10th, 2015, 17:19
(This post was last modified: August 10th, 2015, 17:20 by GermanJoey.)
Mindy is wrong about the page I linked... the OB malus is only 20%, which is significant for sure but there's other big modifiers going for them. They have a super close distance modifier at Coming of Age (contrast to plako/dtay in pb22, who are carrying out missions seemingly effectively on the other side of the map). CoA also has at least 10% culture in the tile, which is another 10% bonus modifier. (and they might even have better cities in Grimaceland). This is on top of the stationary spy bonus and EP differential bonus, as well as the fact that they have no freaking libraries and jails in Nationhood are singlehandedly better than a library+observatory+university together even if the techsteal-mission-to-self-research ratio was at 1:1.
I think you guys are way too hard on HAK.
-His gold saving rate is worse than Comms at the minute to the tune of 70gpt. -But HAK is better at max research, his expenses are 80gpt less while Comm only makes an extra 30bpt. Any advantage Comm has here will probably be lost when the Colossus goes obsolete while HAK still has his 70 ept advantage. The food/hammers look like they favour Comm but they miss two points: -Nationhood rocks, despite Comms propaganda. 3 maces is 210h for somewhere in the region of 60-80f. -Comm has more population, each pop is adding 2 useless food to his demos. HAK has about 180 pop, so Comm has >25 extra or 50f propping up his demos doing nothing for him. That actually puts them pretty even in food/hammers. Both of them have their own monkey on their back too in Tasunke/Gavagai. Looks like it could still be quite an interesting game.  Looking at HAK cities, his civic choices were absolutely the right call IMO. He needed Slavery for the Taj and then he got back into Caste. He has plenty of happy for Nationhood and he's working almost all high value tiles anyway. I think he should be working some more farms over mines though. His infra is actually in a very good place too. Attacking Gavagai was a gamble IMO, it didn't pay off but the logic that they needed to do something was pretty reasonable. Geopolitics still favour Comm IMO.
...Is Tasunke really going to fight Commodore to the death? I mean it's not unreasonable considering the island invasion, but shit, that's going to piss Commodore off no end.
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