[spoilers] Commodore's 69 Techniques

[Commodore]

I thought the bottom of the tech tree became the de facto beeline since at least PB8 and possibly before?

So here is a question to reflect upon for you: how do the ingame economies scale into the rennaissance and Industrial eras? And what is the expected number of turns between military techs?

I was an early champion of the style, I think it didn't really predominate until the teens. I kind of bumbled into it early because of some Colossus-based lakes games where I managed to hit ironclads before Astronomy. I managed machine guns before unlocking maces that time.

Ingame economies scale through four main (and interlinked) factors:
Tech
Citizens
Buildings
Cottage Growth

Tech tends to grow in spurts, with unlocking new economic civics and with boosting improvements. Citizens are of course the most flexible thing, more is almost always better but until Biology there are strict upper limits outside of conquest. Buildings are a big deal, but the marginal growers (Grocers, Universities, Observatories) aren't usually worth it empire-wide. The biggest raw economic input is cottages, those scale into amazingly powerful tiles post-Printing Press...but they're painful to grow.

I generally expect 10-20 turns of "opportunity" in each new wave of Renn+ military techs, skewed longer on a natural map, shorter on a lush fake map. This means that a Steel-beeliner without good town growth needs to capitalize on his economically inefficient path within about two dozen turns or he'll be left behind. The days of Railroad before Paper aren't going to return, I think. Those were fun and weird games though.

[mackoti]

I thought the bottom of the tech tree became the de facto beeline since at least PB8 and possibly before?

So here is a question to reflect upon for you: how do the ingame economies scale into the rennaissance and Industrial eras? And what is the expected number of turns between military techs?

I was an early champion of the style, I think it didn't really predominate until the teens. I kind of bumbled into it early because of some Colossus-based lakes games where I managed to hit ironclads before Astronomy. I managed machine guns before unlocking maces that time.

Ingame economies scale through four main (and interlinked) factors:
Tech
Citizens
Buildings
Cottage Growth

Tech tends to grow in spurts, with unlocking new economic civics and with boosting improvements. Citizens are of course the most flexible thing, more is almost always better but until Biology there are strict upper limits outside of conquest. Buildings are a big deal, but the marginal growers (Grocers, Universities, Observatories) aren't usually worth it empire-wide. The biggest raw economic input is cottages, those scale into amazingly powerful tiles post-Printing Press...but they're painful to grow.

I generally expect 10-20 turns of "opportunity" in each new wave of Renn+ military techs, skewed longer on a natural map, shorter on a lush fake map. This means that a Steel-beeliner without good town growth needs to capitalize on his economically inefficient path within about two dozen turns or he'll be left behind. The days of Railroad before Paper aren't going to return, I think. Those were fun and weird games though.

I dont remember in vanila but railroad was never posible without paper.

[Miguelito]

Can get paper through theology though

[mackoti]

Can get paper through theology though

 The days of Railroad before Paper aren't going to return,

I dont get the catch...

[Krill]

The point is that you can get to Machine Guns, and rifles, without Civil Service, it's only once you get to Infantry that is a Civil Service is needed.

This explains the USA.

[Miguelito]

Can get paper through theology though

 The days of Railroad before Paper aren't going to return,

I dont get the catch...

Ah I missed Comm's lower paragraph,  I was referring to

I managed machine guns before unlocking maces that time.

[Commodore]

I really, really wish I had a dedlurker right now.

Bing captured the Great Lighthouse, but he kept the rest of his stack on its original tile to heal. This presents a huge opportunity to deliver a massive blow...

...coupled with the ability cut his conquests off here...

...but it risks my stuff here. Guh. I need to decide in the next ten hours or so.

[scooter]

Why do you need a ded-lurker? You should obviously do it. Dooo ittttt.


This does not constitute legal and/or Civilization advice. No serious advice is being offered to the player. This comment is made purely in the interest of sheer entertainment value, possibly at your own expense.

[Krill]

I believe lurkers are not only permitted but required to quote the unofficial motto of CIV MP games in these instances:

Blood for the Blood God!!

[Commodore]

Appreciated, and trust me, it's my impulse. I'm going to have to tangle with Bing sooner or later, he's completely in the catbird seat with this conquest. The question is "now" versus "later", and not much later...in no case does it make sense to wait until all of Superdeathia is consolidated. The timescale for "later" is pretty simple:
Gunpowder in 3t
Great Scientist in 9t, then bulb Chemistry.
To get Alphabet and 30% of Chemistry researched in time, need to be building wealth in several major cities. Also need a Caste cycle in 3t->9t to get the Great Scientist out of Pilsner. Obviously, going to war with a higher power neither can happen safely here. But, that's basically granting the GLH to Carthage for a dozen more turns.

So, WAR NOW:
Pros:
-Nuke the Great Lighthouse.
-Cut off the wounded army in Sumer.
-Can destroy all Superdeath war gains.
Cons:
-No hope of making progress in his core without risengarde.
-Pindicator and Magic Science relieved, "whew, not our problem".
-Stops the current tech path.

WAIT AND SEE:
Pros:
-Finish path to the Last Unit Needed.
-Tension adds pressure to MS/Pin about Bing's dominance.
-Bing gets more territory to control, but doesn't get stuff from it yet much.
Cons:
-Great Lighthouse is very secure long-term.
-Bing can heal his super-force.
-Bing fortifies his vulnerable "neck" area.