NO PLAYERS- 53 reasons why i shouldnt make maps

[NobleHelium]

T-2: Commodore moves last, moves his galleys up.
T-1: Commodore double moves ahead of scooter, moves his galleys up again to fork scooter's cities.
T0: Commodore declares war on scooter, staying ahead of him in turn order nominally because he moved before scooter on T-1.

scooter has one fewer turn (T-1 only) to react to the galleys as a result. Note that on T-2 Commodore could have moved his galleys in a different direction to fork a different set of cities after moving on T-1.

[sunrise089]

How does he have one fewer turn to react? One fewer than what? If he moved second on T-1 wouldn’t scooter then not have THAT turn to react? I’m having trouble envisioning how scooter doesn’t have time to react when he otherwise would...normally a player having the entire turn T-1 to react would seem to have the advantage.

[NobleHelium]

If he moved second on T-1 then he would have to move second on T0. Thus scooter gets T-1 and T0 to react. If he moved first on T-2 and first on T-1, then scooter would get T-2 and T-1 to react.

[sunrise089]

Noble, to put it another way, I’m imagining say both players with units 9tiles from a target city and all 3movers.

T-2 commodore moves end of turn and let’s turn roll, he’s 6 away, scooter 9 away.

T-1 commodore moves first, scooter then responds. Commodore 3 away, scooter 6

T0 commodore moves first, takes city, scooter 3 away.

Versus if commodore just stays last in the order:

T-2 as above

T-1 scooter responds first, now 6 away, Commodore moves to 3 away and ends turn.

T0 scooter moves up to 3 away, Commodore takes city.

It’s the same outcome except scooter’s whip options are worse in the ‘no double move’ version.

[sunrise089]

Cross post. How does scooter get to react when he’s locked out of the turn and/or the turn has rolled?

[NobleHelium]

OK, if you really want to hash this out you get me in chat. Otherwise we can wait until tomorrow and hopefully someone else has explained it to your satisfaction by then, or I'll ask someone else to come in here.

[sunrise089]

No, I largely retract my argument. I re-read your posts more carefully and I see where scooter could be harmed.

I’m not sold that ON PRINCIPLE we should be reloading due to movements made two turns prior to war. I know this game doesn’t have a posted ruleset but if convention is that turn-split have to be established multiple turns in advance than I acquiesce to that consensus.

[NobleHelium]

I'm not saying there necessarily needs to be a reload. But there needs to be an adequate remedy for scooter.

[superdeath]

I'm not saying there necessarily needs to be a reload.  But there needs to be an adequate remedy for scooter.

[sunrise089]

What if scooter needed five peacetime turns to move units to counter a telegraphed attack, and there was a double move on T-5. Would that merit a reload?

I do understand that commodore is getting to have initiative to either double move or not...presumably in a situation where the target is unclear he’d then NOT do the peacetime double move so that he could maintain targeting-surprise by moving last. I’m just not sure how much scooter is entitled to past ‘your opponent can’t double-move you during hostilities.’

It’s late noble, please don’t take my combativeness as malicious