[SPOILERS] Pindicator as Qin Shi of China - Boring Ol' Vanilla

[Ceiliazul]

Hagia is a nice-to-have but does not really fit into any strategy.

Amen, brother. I find I only build it when I've also landed mids or the gardens, and more for ENG points tham the actual benefit.

Although... normal speed does improve the prospects a bit if theres lots of forests/jungle to chop or you're planning a communist workshop revolution at some point.

[pindicator]

Turn 144

I built Univeristy of Sankore!

Number of Temples & Monasteries empire-wide: 1

Need to work on that...



So which is the better infra to build at this point? Courthouses or Temples? That's the decision I have to make in a lot of cities and to be honest, the first glance seems to say Courthouses are better. Even in my capital, there a Courthouse gives 2.5gpt in savings. The +1 happy still isn't an issue as none of my cities are even near the happiness cap. The +2 ep from a courthouse is a big help for passive espionage. The only thing I can think of to sway to building a Temple first is that it is cheaper.

Monastery: 60h
Temple: 80h
Courthouse: 120h

I think I would still rather have the Courthouse over the Temple, and the Monasteries.... Well, truth be told I haven't teched Meditation yet. Eventually we'll want it all, of course -- there are probably some cities where building a market first makes sense -- but there's also military to discuss. We're currently sitting on the world's 12th strongest military, and bordering some of the top dogs. Hense the CKN builds above. Next turn we can start building some knights. And in 3 turns our heroic epic city should be online.

Market finished at Llancarfan this turn. That shrine is now pulling in just shy of 100gpt all by itself.

[pindicator]

Turn 145

The first CKN completed this turn. This has to be some kind of watershed moment for me: having a strong UB and not beelining it directly.



I finished Guilds last turn, and I'll complete Meditation at 10% this turn. But I immediately switched out of all the temple builds and decided that the game plan needs to be a little more aggressive again. We're starting up knights in several cities, and finishing barracks in others. I also canceled a deal that will help us get our last remaining wonders built:



Without my own source of stone I had offered Rufi this deal to ensure I'd have that bonus. UoS was a key wonder that I had targeted so I sold out for it (and I'll have to either conquer my own stone or do another similar deal when it comes time to go after Spiral Minaret). With it being a key wonder, it makes sense to push for temples now. But I realize that if I'm going to stay competitive long term I need more land. So we are building knights and CKNs now, for use against ... against whom?

Certainly not Old Harry



My best defense against Old Harry is that straight of water making it more difficult to attack me than it would be to attack Azza. Otherwise I'd be wetting myself. (It's also why most of my army is currently in Llancarfan; because dtay is the bigger threat.) I also delayed settling the south as a strategic choice; my better city locations were in the north and the south was mostly calendar-resources for food, so I decided to let whomever have the coastal fish and I would just fill in the south later. Now those border cities are starting to grow up and I really do need to garrison them better.

Old Harry sits at 30 cities, which just about doubles my 17. If I were to even consider attacking him I'd need to have a head start in production and power, but he dwarfs me in those stats as well. In fact, the only thing that seems to have prevented him from taking over his own continent already is the fact he had the misfortune of starting next to Azza, one of the most stubborn players in Civ. Poor Azza has been the target of many an early rush in his games, but he also has the admirable tenacity to fight on to the bitter end. So while eventually he will be swallowed up by Old Harry, it won't be whole, and it'll be tough and gristly meat to chew.

To sum up: there's no way we're attacking Old Harry in the near future. We'd need boats and we'd need to catch him with his pants down when we did our naval invasion. (Which coincidentally is the exact expression I'd use if he were to attack us right now.)

[Ceiliazul]

But I immediately switched out of all the temple builds and decided that the game plan needs to be a little more aggressive again. We're starting up knights in several cities, and finishing barracks in others.

Certainly not Old Harry

Oh, well who's the lucky fellow who gets chucked?

Also, Azza generally deserves exactly what he gets. Until he figures out that pink dots make enemies, it's going to keep happening. Just wait til you can read the applicable threads...

[pindicator]

Oh, well who's the lucky fellow who gets chucked?

All in good time But I'm pretty sure you already know who the target likely is.

Also, Azza generally deserves exactly what he gets. Until he figures out that pink dots make enemies, it's going to keep happening. Just wait til you can read the applicable threads...

As opposed to those of us who get pink-dotted and find there's nothing they can do about it


Turn 146

See, reasons like this are why I shouldn't waste time on things like "infrastructure"



If I had that modern army I could be taking advantage of this. Instead I'm just buildling troops.

It dawns on me that I haven't shown off my Moai city post-Moai yet:



I'll end up grabbing some workshops and pump units out once that temple finishes.

While we're at it, here's where National Epic is going:



And here's a random city:



Well, not entirely random. Scales is like the little workhorse that does a bit of everything. Need commerce? We got half a dozen villages. Need production? Mines and Watermills are covering that. I just like this city. Probably because it's just shy of being able to 4-turn knights, but I still like it.

I'm going to 2-turn Engineering now, after just finishing Meditation. After that I think I need to go for Divine Right. Maybe there's a tech or two I should snatch up first -- it may be smart to actually grab Education and try to get Oxford going come to think of it -- but really I want to get that religious stuff going along

Demos are really nice considering I'm not in a golden age



And here's an overview of the whole empire, because I like you guys:



I'm starting to wonder where I stagnate certain cities, like Strand and Tallow. We want the capital to be as big as possible, naturally, and that means some of those satellite cities can only grow so tall. Actually, Tallow may be done growing at 10 now that I'm looking at just which tiles are available for it to use outside fo the capital's BFC

[Ceiliazul]

Where does oxford go? FP?

Im not even gonna ask about Wall Street... Obviously it goes in Tallow. Look at those beautiful riverside cottages!

[pindicator]

Looking at that overview, I wish I had the hammers and the time to move my capital to Scales and cottage everything up that I could. I'd definitely put Oxford there in that case. I might end up doing that anyway.

I'm going to pretend I just missed the /s tag in that the Wall Street comment

[pindicator]

Turn 148

I didn't really update last turn, but the only thing of note was this:



MYKI continues to be slowly devoured by WilliamLP

This turn, BGN made a strong case for why he should be considered the frontrunner. (But remember folks, still a long way to go!)



I'm enjoying my +50% movement by sending everything west. Sorry, haven't had time to do th opponent analysis that I've wanted to, but when it comes down to attacking there are only 2 options: dtay and Cyneheard. And Cyneheard has the misfortune of not being the civ stronger than me. It doesn't help his case that he's just gotten into a war. So everything is going west.

Now, with engineering being complete I had a few options of where to go next with tech:



Obvious choice here: get a bank in that holy city and build up that shrine. But that city is already building a Grocer and in two turns we'd either stop a Grocer and swap to a bank that would then take 14 turns to build. Or we finish building the Grocer in the 9 turns it has left and then go from there. I didn't think that was worth Banking, that all by itself. (Although it is on the path to Rifles....)



Also on the path to Rifles, and to Cuirassiers as well. But I don't think I'd build any muskets now so there didn't seem a point.



Now things get interesting. Do I go for Education and land Oxford as quickly as possible? My capital is getting about 80cpt after bureaucracy, so Oxford would certainly get some mileage.



Or go Printing Press? It will take about 7 turns total to tech, counting the time to save gold. In that time i would have almost 40 villages & towns. That's a lot of free commerce. I was really strongly thinking about this.



But I feel compelled to follow the DR path. We can get it in 4 turns and I know exactly where we can start building it in that time. Having both religious wonders (no AP still makes me cry ) will eventually turn our religious buildings into a great boon. Of course, we won't really build any religious buildings until after the war with Cyneheard is going.

Here's a picture of some scouting:



I want silver!

[pindicator]

It's Friday, I'm ready to relax after work but instead have to do homework, so we're going to put all that off and instead play some Civ! Turn 151 is up and ... oh ... I didn't report on 150?

I didn't do that big empire overview that I've been talking about doing?

Okay, let's do that instead!

Turn 150 Extrapalooza!

I opened the game to a trade that at first sight was quite laughable



I mean, BGN is winning right now, isn't he? Why would I want to help him with free happy? And true, I don't technically have any cows hooked up, but that's only because I haven't bothered to hook up the ones inside my borders. If I had health issues it wouldn't be a problem. So health for happy, bad trade with the leader, hit decline.

And then I thought ... but what about the meta? BGN, no offense, but I dont' think anybody is considering you the favorite to win even though you're in first place. (And if you prove me wrong and do go on to win then I think I'd rather have that than a Krill or a plako or one of the usual suspects.) Plus, there could be some benefit to buddying up to a power. I am surrounded on all sides by strong opponents; making friends with another one that apperas to border Old Harry could be a benefit if war were to come up later.

I'm going to re-offer that same trade. I think.

Oh yeah, and something else happened:





I have to admit, now that I've built it, I'm already enjoying the 3-turn cottages, the 4-turn farms, and plenty of other benefits. Not sure it was still worth the cost but meh, it's done now. I can have Tyr pump some units now ... at least, until we finish Divine Right.

Speaking of Divine Right, let's skip ahead a little and check out religion!



Just one city to go! I've got some temples being built but there really isn't a concerted effort quite yet. After the war I think that infra push will be a lot of religious buildings. But war first.

Still, we have one more city to convert. And we had a missionary finish on the same turn! Let's wrap this up with a bow!



Or not.



CITY PICTURES!



The Core:













I've decided to go ahead and move the capital to Scales. It costs about the same as 1.5 knights, so I don't feel too bad about the hammer cost. Which means Madrigal has already given up the rice, and when it hits size 15 it's going to cap out and just pump units. Sure, that makes the Academy less optimally placed in Madrigal, but I think when Scales gets all its tiles working and cottaged up we're going to see a far better end-game capital thatn we could have gotten in Madrigal. Lategame, with fully mature cottages in Universal Suffrage and a levee, this will be an awesome city.

Tandem probably could have been home to my National Epic, but I decided to put Moai there and the two don't really fit together so hot. And with Scales now slated to gobble up the land tiles I am going to be running specialists here soon anyway. The pikes it is making now are needed for my CKN & catapult stack, but after we get some of them out I am going to want to start building my navy. I'm still stuck on just that 1 galley, and it's out exploring. Ideally we will fit in Optics sooner rather than later and start the navy out of caravels.

Willow Creek is going to be a dedicated unit pump. It isn't the best hammer city I have, but it has Heroic Epic now, and with little other value all I can see for it to do is churn out units.

Tyr is a wonder beast. Nuff said. Spiral Minaret will be built here, possibly within a dozen turns. Aside from that it is another great all around city. We need to grow it though; +2 food is way too low. And I have a pair of workers coming up the west side of those mountains to irrigate those grassland tiles. Once we get the population up to the right spot we'll cottage over those farms. Good all-around city.

And White Falls... it's really just a filler commerce city. The type that you need to have a big competitive empire.



Near Celtia:







Twelve Duns is going to be a unit pump in the northeast; look for this city to help repopulate the units I pulled west that were defending Llancarfan. And later it will be helpful in building a navy (for invading WilliamLP!). But it still needs to grow and get worker help to get there.

Brayle is one of those minimal commerce cities. It has a little production but I don't see it using that on units.

Comfort is like Tyr, a very nice jack-of-all-trades. So for now that means units.

This is really a boring section of the empire...

EDIT: I forgot all about Otter Ferry! Ha! Well, that is just a basic filler city that I can't even tell if I want to spam workshops or cottages in. And honestly, if I can't tell then I'm going to be building cottages. But this is a city i'm still getting basic infra in.


Far Celtia:










The main concern for these cities will always be dtay. But we're taking a risk here by pulling everything west and trying to take a chunk out of Cyneheard, which means we're going to need to pump a new batch of CKNs and catapults to deter any threat of invasion. Avernus and Rhi'anon are both vulnerable cities, which makes me wonder at my choice to build National Epic here. But we'll just need to make sure the garrisons are above average.

Llancarfan will of course focus on making the most of that shrine, finishing its grocer and we will be absolutely sure to have Banking in time so it can transition immediately to a Bank. Corporation is still a long way off, but when it comes.... oh boy! Llancarfan is also another strong commerce city, so I don't think it will build anything but infrastructure in quite a while.

Strand is going to be unit pump and ideally located to build my southern navy. When I like my knight numbers I expect to switch it over; it's really in a situation very similar to Tandem in the north.



The South:









The south is largely developing. The most mature city, Tallow, could arguably lumped in the core section, and is only a cottage sattellite city that has no native food and will be capped at it's current size for the rest of the game. These are the cities that also need the most tile improvements, and my work force is in position to help. Tallow will do infrastructure the rest of the game, but I don't see it doing anything further until Universal Suffrage.

Shoal is the city that will be a unit pump, and one of the loan production-focused cities in the empire. I earnestly want to cottage over those workshops, but that won't happen for a while still, and I do need the production now. Maybe it won't happen ever, but the long-term plan is Unversal Suffrage + Free Speech, and that means workshops at a minimum.

Crow's Bridge and Avon Grove are both filler cities. They'll do a little of everything, but mostly exist to improve my GNP. Just like White Falls and Brayle in the north.



DEMOS & GRAPHS!














MISCELLANEA!










It's a Big, Big World...

[Ceiliazul]

Replace "ginger" with "attack WilliamLP", and it's an accurate picture of what lurkers hear.

That really is a smooth running empire you've got there. I like how most cities have a clear job that they're pretty week suited for.