[spoiler] Civac fixes it (again)

[civac2]

Is that really worth it? Do people not open borders in MP? I suppose you get some additional early commerce and Mercantilism would be very profitable.

Harbors are a bit expensive unless you are EXP.

[Ruff_Hi]

People absolutely OBs in MP games ... for the boost in trade routes.  It also means you can scout their land ... but they can scout your land.

Need to see what spies look like in this game - there was a pitboss (49?) where they could only see the tile they were standing on.

Edit: Looks like they are bog standard BtS ... so we could keep borders closed and scout with spies.

[Ruff_Hi]

hey - we are up?

Which way do we want to go?

[Ruff_Hi]

Looking at civs ...
Spain with the Castle (no wall requirement) that gives XP to seige and ships looks interesting.
I don't believe that I have ever played the Zulu (barrack with exp reduction and fast spearman).

Happy with FIN ... 2nd trait?

[Ruff_Hi]

Oh ... and, just in case we might want to chat ...

email is ruff dot hi at gmail dot com

Time zone is GMT - 5.

[civac2]

I have considered Pacal or Victoria, economic trait + expansion trait. If you can get sufficient foreign trade routes the main advantage of PRO simply disappears except for the very early game and when running Mercantilism. The map is also supposedly big enough that the improved archers are not that valuable. However, if you want to pick PRO I'm fine with it. The early trade routes should be a nice boost. What is your preference?

Edit: Didn't see your later posts. I like all of Fin, Spain and the Zulu. As mentioned above my preference for the second trait would be an expansion trait.

[Ruff_Hi]

No PRO reduces the need for massive trade routes and hence the Citadel (Spanish Castle) ... that leaves Zulu.

Expansion trait ... Creative, Imperialistic or ... or ... where is the more production into worker trait?

Edit: Expansive Trait - the worker bonus got nuked.

Creative so we don't have to worry about border pops?

William the Orange Man

[civac2]

The worker bonus was on EXP in BTS but it has been taken out. Now it only grants half-cost granaries which is still pretty good imo.

Willem (FIN, CRE) is my favourite leader. Objectively, Victoria is probably stronger though.

[Ruff_Hi]

Willem it is

I think we pick him and then wait for the Zulu to come back to us

Ok?

Editing ...

Actually ... I am ok with Viccy too.  The GG boost will be nice playing with.

[civac2]

Agree with picking Willem. Er, or Victoria. This is tricky.

Edit: I think Victoria is better. IMP also get cheaper Stables.

As for the Zulu, the issue with them is that early barracks aren't worth it particularly without AGG. I would like to look for some alternatives first.