[PB62] naufragar and Rusten earn their wage in rostygold

[Rusten]

I'm very conflicted about Netherlands vs. Germany. On the one hand, I want to be the reason the East Indiaman gets a deserved nerf, but you're right. We don't know how much water there is on this map. Knowing Commodore, there will be naval action.

I'd say both civs are roughly equal for style points. The grenadier thing is maybe a little cooler but significantly less useful.

That, plus our starting location is coastal which points toward there being a fair bit of water. And even if there's not very much we'll be one of the civs able to utilize it.

[Rusten]

First thought, bulb maths and chop MoM? We'll have some extra beakers from ignoring the mysticism line. Spice helps postpone the need for HR, and maybe we can find more calendar stuff (or use the extra spice to trade for something). IMO that should be the early game goal based on current information.

edit: I'll play through some starts tonight to get a feel. Thanks for the updated sandbox.

[Rusten]

Another fun/good option is to settle in place --> tech writing --> sailing while generating GS --> bulb mathematics --> chop GLH --> chop MoM in inland city --> Astro. The value of this clearly depends on how many coastal spots we find. It's likely we tech sailing after writing while waiting for the GS in any case.

[naufragar]

You're forgetting the part where we start next to Superdeath of Agg Rome and have to tech Construction before he gets his praet stack.

I'm curious to see what leader Tarkeel picks to pair with Spain. Superdeath has gone for the Great Lighthouse in the past, but I can't see Superdeath picking Rome for it. Regardless, I like math bulb -> MoM-> single person golden age? -> double scientist bulb for Astro.

I'm also a huge fan of early Sailing for domestic ICTR and potential island claiming.

[Rusten]

2019 SD is back

[naufragar]

Called it.

For what it's worth, in PB46 Superdeath chose Boudica of (RtR) America and landed the Great Lighthouse. Rome is a Fishing civ. Perhaps Superdeath is thinking nautical thoughts? 

I'll do an opponent analysis once the pick phase is complete. So far, there's only one other pairing that I'm really impressed by.

I have not had much time to sim out the start, but I figure we've got a while.

[naufragar]

Vanrober: Zara of China
Fabled: Cyrus of Mongolia
Bing Xi Lao: Genghis Khan of Sumeria
Tarkeel: Julius Caesar of Spain
Superdeath: Boudicca of Rome
Mjmd: Vicky of Mali
Naufragar: Pericles of the Netherlands


Since this is a CtH pitboss, I’ll be evaluating the picks based on how close they are to my heart and how likely they are to bring the trophy home. But I’m ranking the players based on skill. 

Tarkeel: Julius Caesar (Imp/Org) of Spain (Fishing/Myst/Conquistador/Citadel)

Tarkeel is a very solid player with a keen eye for detail, being dedlurked by Civac, who is a very solid player with a keen eye for detail. Yeah, this team is going to knock it out of the park. I can’t really remember PB58, which Tarkeel+Amica won, but win they did. Civac’s also won a game, I forget which. So you’ve got a couple of proven winners.

This is my favorite combo besides ours. If you can get around Spain’s awkward starting techs, they are very good. Spain gets more naval experience, which is difficult to come by and a huge difference maker in naval combat. The conquistador’s not a bad unit either. Julius Caesar is the best leader, and I won’t hear otherwise. Commodore tends to modify randomly rolled maps, so Imp shouldn’t be nerfed to uselessness. Org will shine on a Small/Emperor map. This is a great combo piloted by strong players.

Close: 5/5
to
Home: 5/5

Superdeath: Boudicca (Agg/Cha) of Rome (Fishing/Mining/Praet/Forum)

Superdeath is probably the most known quantity on the forums, especially if we discount old timers like Commodore and Krill. For all that, people still seem to misjudge him. I know a certain other player in this game routinely underestimates him. What’s there to say that hasn’t been said? He is prone to take offense and prone to give offense right back. He likes wonders, but he’s all about the killing.

Oh look, Boudica of Rome.    Superdeath has been on a quest to rein in his aggression, but it looks like he’s letting his murderous flag fly with this pick. Let me be clear: this is a bad pick. Rome like Agg because Shock Praets are essentially unstoppable for anything at their tech level, but Charismatic is too much. You don’t need extra upgrades on an already dominant unit. The extra happy is nice, as is the reduced monument cost, but I would’ve liked to see Agg paired with just about anything else. If we’re next to him, it’s still bad news, don’t get me wrong. But this could’ve been better.

Close: 5/5
to
Home: 2/5

Mjmd: Vicky (Imp/Fin) of Mali (Mining/Wheel/Skirmisher/Mint)


I’m putting Mjmd below Superdeath to annoy him. Actually, one trait Superdeath does have over Mjmd is their reaction to setbacks. Mjmd’s anger makes him messy. Superdeath’s anger makes him dangerous. But Mjmd’s not a bad player by any stretch.

Mjmd picking Vicky of India is a running meme. Perhaps Pindicator, who seems to be dedlurking him, steered him away from India? No idea. These are two strong pieces that seem to be weaker for their union. Mali desperately wants Forges. Forges are so expensive for when they show up and Mali wants forges everywhere. (Actually, everybody wants forges everywhere.) Instead, Mjmd picked Imp/Fin. You’ll never catch me saying anything bad about Imp, but Fin is not my cup of tea. Our own start doesn’t want Fin. Maybe Mjmd’s is different. A word about Financial coast: it’s a trap without Org. 

Close: 1/5
to
Home: 4/5

Vanrober: Zara (Cre/Org) of China (Agri/Mining/Pavillion/Cho-ko-nu)


Vanrober is a member of the new generation, but he’s learning quickly. I think he’s got a ways to go before he’s top tier, but I’m optimistic that he’ll keep learning and improving.

This combo is perfectly inoffensive. If this map looks how I expect it to look, Zara will be very good. You’ll never go wrong with China, either. I don’t really have much more to say about this combo. It could win. We’ll see if it does.

Close: 3/5
to
Home: 3/5

Bing Xi Lao: Genghis Khan (Imp/Agg) of Sumeria (Wheel/Agri/Vulture/Ziggurat)


Another member of the new generation. I haven’t been blown away by what I’ve seen from BXL in PB61, but I’m glad to see him joining new games and improving his skills. I hope he has a good time in this one. 

I don’t like this combo. I am biased towards Imp, so, as with Mjmd’s combo, I’ll probably rate this higher than I should. I just don’t know what this combo wants to do. Why pick Sumer? Egypt, France, and Babylon are all Wheel/Agri civs with better unique units. If you value the Ziggurat highly (and it is a good building), why not pick a leader that incentivizes going down the religious line? If you are worried about maintenance, you could pick an Org leader and a better civ. All in all, this pick leaves me scratching my head.

Close: 1/5
to
Home: 2/5

Fabled: Cyrus (Imp/Cha) of Mongolia (Hunting/Wheel/Keshik/Ger)


Fabled gets the last spot not because he’s bad but because he’s unknown. It’s possible he’s a ringer who comes out and smokes all of us, but until then, no benefit of the doubt for you.    But seriously, I hope he has a pleasant time and comes back for more games.

This combo is good. It’s been played before to decent results by Vanrober/GeneralKilCavalry in PB54 (off the top of my head). It’s simple: you expand out as fast as you can with Imp. You build some Gers for 4xp, which is 2 promotions as Charismatic, and then you whack someone really hard with Keshiks. It could be dangerous, but so can a normal horse archer rush. It’s a good combo. Doesn’t light my fire.

Close: 2/5
to
Home: 4/5

[Amicalola]

I hope there's something this good waiting for me in your 59 thread.

Really interesting point about agg/cha Rome. The overkill argument makes perfect sense. Would you consider cha or agg (paired with 'x expansion trait') better pick with Rome overall? Sounds like agg?

[naufragar]

I hope there's something this good waiting for me in your 59 thread.

Only one way to find out.

Really interesting point about agg/cha Rome. The overkill argument makes perfect sense. Would you consider cha or agg (paired with 'x expansion trait') better pick with Rome overall? Sounds like agg?

Aggressive beats Charismatic for Rome because Agg + Barracks gets you Shock. Nothing near Iron Working beats Shock Praets outside of Catapults. There are plenty of scenarios in which a C1 Shock Praet has odds on a an axe in a city, which is supposed to be the unit that counters it.

As Pericles, Rusten and I will have a few safety features: our cities will have cultural defense, which starts to swing the calculation. We'll be bulbing Mathematics, so we could hopefully get a quick Construction if necessary. Needless to say, I really hope it's not necessary.

[Rusten]

With all those early game UUs I'm feeling pretty good about creative too.