The More Things Change...

[Sirian]

You may still see me in games. What you won't see is a melee build. I've given up on them.


Telekill is NOT melee. I never played that way. Never had to. In fact, the part of the game I enjoyed the most was chasing runners: goats, witches. It's almost too easy with a Speed/Haste weapon. I'd get normal weapons and go after them. Since I played nearly all of my chars pure, not many of my warriors found a suitable high speed weapon quickly anyway.

If telekilling warriors walked (or blinked) back and forth through my rogue's line of fire, I'd have shot them. I'd have kept on shooting, too. Teaming is a two-way street. The idea that rogues should always defer to reckless warrior players offends my sensibilities. I guess one needs to be expert at both warrior and rogue to understand truly what each character's responsibility is (or should be) to a teammate. You learn as a warrior when NOT to shoot as a rogue, and you learn as a rogue how to STAND STILL as a warrior.

Proper teaming, in my view, is a give and take process. Even though the rogue will always be behind the warrior, sometimes it falls on him to hold his ground or to tank and let her command the battle. It's very easy not to get shot in the back if there is effective communication between when the warrior is in charge mode and the rogue should defer, vs when the rogue is in free fire mode and the warrior should defer.

I'd have laughed at and shot warriors who believe rogues should always defer. Of course, one can play a steady rogue-friendly warrior and still get shot in the arse, but then the rogue KNOWS whose fault that is, and one doesn't need to belabor it. The less you say, the more guilt they will feel.


Since most of the RB D1 crowd seems to view telekill as the "normal" operating behavior of warriors, it would seem to follow that they'd not find anything lacking when D2 REQUIRES you to play that way, rendering a true melee playstyle unsustainable. Oh, you can sustain it with the right items and/or "obeying" the mlvl curve, but to me that's akin to the D1 tank mage: you're not in significant danger, so why bother?

That's really what bugs me the most about D2: you are either not in significant danger, or you are in so much danger you have to pull back and play from range. There's no sweet spot in the middle. If red pots can get you through, you're not taking enough damage to truly threaten you. If you need purple pots... well, you can have a glorious fight, but then you run out of pots and the fun is over. You then MUST pull back to taking less damage than reds can heal or you will die. Phooey.


- Sirian

[AlanSHB]

Sirian--have you tried playing with a cleric in the party? Yes you can't jam the 1 key to get instant healing, but a good cleric can probably keep you on the edge of your seat in the same way you seem to want without requiring you to fall back quite as far. Admittedly there's going to be some falling back required, but even in d1 the belt could go empty.....

Just a thought for your next pure mellee attempt--try it as a baba with a good cleric in the group you normally play with. See if that captures the feel you're looking for.

After all d2 isn't much of a solo game (it's passable, but the true fun imho is in groups)


Just a thought,
Alan

[Sirian]

There are two kinds of groups: teams, and random pickup games.

The latter amount to "playing solo" and cooping with anybody who happens to be there, if they have chars at your level in the same area of the game and can run with you for a while.

The former require dedicated time slots, regular appearances, and nearly all parties remaining committed to the team all the way through to completion.

Team play is a different issue. My comments reflect solo play, with and without occasional group outings with random others. Is D2 "not much of a solo game"? Well, that's all there is, other than team games, unless you run in a crowd so large there are always busy games in every act at every difficulty level into which you could pop -- or else play pubbie games and endure the theft, item hogging, PKs, griefers, constant gogogogo, and endlessly twinked cookie cutter chars. I don't run in such a crowd and I long ago gave up on pubbie games as not worth the aggravations.


- Sirian

[Occhidiangela]

Sounds like a 70's orgy, so maybe I need to name my character Mazola or some such! :o

Friendly fire naked? Given that we had a lot of fun with FF before that team slowly dissolved, sure, why not?

How naked is naked? No weapons? Nothing? Is there a rule set or a framework in work?

Sign me up, see ya 'all there with my "bow string, not a g string!"

Occhi

[ShadowHM]

Originally posted by Occhidiangela@Sep 10 2004, 12:45 PM


How naked is naked?  No weapons?  Nothing?  Is there a rule set or a framework in work?

King of Pain gave the outlines in this post.

It all sounds like tremendous fun to me. Much experimentation will have to take place to find out just how much 'cursed effects' are too much.

I do know already that an Asssassin and a Thrower Barb with Leap make a surprisingly effective team-up. It sure is funny to see that big swaggering Barb push the l'il Assassin around. A Spirit Wolf nipping at your heels is an incentive to press on to the next battle, if only to make it find a new target. :unsure: So is a Raven pecking at your head.

Hope to see you there with bells on, if nothing else. :P Mazola oil might help too though, as long as it doesn't make you slip on the dungeon floor and get trampled by the monsters.