"Minor Leaders" Addition Discussion

[Sareln]

The only difference between CivTraits and LeaderTraits is where they're placed in the XML. If I really wanted to I could make a TOL/BAR leader...

[Ravus Sol]

I take it that the idea of a Barbarian/Adaptive leader doesn't work creatively or balance wise then?

[Amelia]

Balance i don't see it working, with nothing to help you at all and a 10% research penalty. Good luck taking over someone in the first place...

Edit: Urgh i saw tolerant instead of adaptive, my bad.

[Sareln]

I take it that the idea of a Barbarian/Adaptive leader doesn't work creatively or balance wise then?

Amusingly it does, here's how.

Adaptive leaders have a slot for a permanent-trait in their XML. When the adaptive switch triggers, the game looks at all their traits and removes ones that are: not the permanent trait && are on the list of traits to pick from (BAR and TOL aren't).

So at the first adaptive switch, a ADA/BAR/TOL leader would gain a trait without losing any. At every switch after that, the adaptive leader would swap the one trait that wasn't ADA/BAR/TOL.

[NobleHelium]

I think Ravus wants a Clan that has Barbarian for the first 70 turns and then loses it for a real trait. (Yeah, no.)

[Ravus Sol]

Actually I was thinking you could have a leader with Barbarian trait as the only trait that sticks around while the other trait is adaptive.

A sort of inbetween Jonas's awesome two traits and Charadons just Agressive.

I was actually recommending the idea for Kane of the Malakim seeing as they do best with an adaptive leader and them being barbarian could lead to some unique plays along with maybe making the lightbringer starting unit last longer.

[Terkhen]

My build of Tholal's MNAI includes a modmod that enables all minor leaders for normal play. Although I did pay some attention to balance (I play MP with my friends sometimes after all) I doubt that my leader/trait scheme meets EitB standards. I add new traits and I don't mind having too many leaders for some civs. If you are interested anyway I can post the full list.

I can help you with a problem that you might want to know about and that I managed to avoid. If you change the minor leaders to give them interesting traits you will make scenarios more difficult, because by default most of the leaders are pretty bad. To avoid this, I duplicated the minor leaders giving them a different ids and the new traits. To make them work, I also had to duplicate all of their entries at CIV4DiplomacyInfos.xml, otherwise the "new" leaders would have empty conversations.

I'll be following this thread, I'm interested in your leader/trait decisions

[Kyan]

My build of Tholal's MNAI includes a modmod that enables all minor leaders for normal play. Although I did pay some attention to balance (I play MP with my friends sometimes after all) I doubt that my leader/trait scheme meets EitB standards. I add new traits and I don't mind having too many leaders for some civs. If you are interested anyway I can post the full list.

I can help you with a problem that you might want to know about and that I managed to avoid. If you change the minor leaders to give them interesting traits you will make scenarios more difficult, because by default most of the leaders are pretty bad. To avoid this, I duplicated the minor leaders giving them a different ids and the new traits. To make them work, I also had to duplicate all of their entries at CIV4DiplomacyInfos.xml, otherwise the "new" leaders would have empty conversations.

I'll be following this thread, I'm interested in your leader/trait decisions

I would be curious to see your list. If they are unbalanced, i'm sure we can work on that.

Good catch on the scenarios!

Bob: I agree that this site has some fantastic writers. I think what i'll do is write a paragraph or two for a few of them and yourself and Sareln can use or not use them as you will, i'm not one to get offended. I enjoy writing for writings sake. Are there any particular ones you'd prefer me to write?

[Amelia]

If these are the leaders we're using, i'll probably write out a story or two as well for them.

By the way, were all of the leaders in The Momus killed off? I know Duke Sallor survived, as well as the Hippus guy. I thought if they lost they just continued being slaves.

[Terkhen]

Here is a document with my changes. My goal was to make the minor leaders interesting and/or fun to play, but not very powerful. I already changed some leaders (such as Shekinah) because I prefer the traits given here.

The Slaver trait/promotion have been taken from Rise from Erebus. Agrarian is from Realism Invictus. Note that the Slaver promotion requires changes to the DLL.