[Spoilers] Dtay's first PB: When you play a game of CIV, you win or you die

[dtay]

Regardless of where I ultimately settle the capital (almost certainly going to be SIP, 1E, or 1NE at this point), I really like this start. Lots of forests, good cottage set up with the flood plains, right kind of food resources, sufficiently large number of food resources, and good production potential (especially if I move).

The real problem now is which way do I move the scout. If I understand the visibility rules correctly, I can't reveal every tile I care about with just 1 move. Hopefully once I have the save some fog gazing will reveal a bit of additional information.

I can't think of a good argument against first tech bronze working. I don't really need a religion with the +1c barracks, and probably couldn't get one anyway with a few mysticism civs and 17 other civs total. I don't need agriculture for anything at the moment, and while I want pottery relatively soon being able to chop-rush things is more urgent, especially if I do the sullla style double-worker opening (ie - i read PB2, lulz).

The precise opening is dependent on where I choose to settle, which is dependant on what scouts find, but I'll probably start simming out the openings tomorrow regardless.

Last thing on the checklist is do I want to rush a wonder? I don't have marble or stone immediately apparent, though it might be removed from the map, or at least from the capitals. Same argument against religion is an argument against stonehenge, Pyramids would be nice but risky without stone + 17 other civs + ind civs in the mix. Then there's the great lighthouse, but its been nerfed enough I don't think it outweighs the settlers and workers. Oracle would require going up the otherwise unneeded for a while religion tree, and again... 17 other civs. FailGold = bleh.

[regoarrarr]

What techs do you start with? I have to say that losing a turn settling 1E or 1NE doesn't seem like a great move, even if it does cost a FP

[dtay]

Hunting/Mining.

Yeah, I'm thinking it through. Neither spot is really makesa difference in the early game, I'll still be working some of pigs/cows/floodplains/mined-hill's for the foreseeable future. The question is a) is moving better long term and b) if so is the loss of 1 turn at the beginning worth it.

Its proving difficult to sim this out, since the starts really are identical (unless there's a significant resource hiding in the fog) for the first 40+ turns. At least I have 2 days to dwell on it

[dtay]

Man I feel so lonely seeing all the other teams posting back and forth, presumably having coversations

I've been sandboxing a bit, and assuming SIP and nothing useful in the upper row of my BFC, I can get 2 workers, a settler, a WB, 2 roads, 2 pastures, and 1/2-3/4 of a warrior out by turn 34.

A bit of a mini farmer's gambit given the lack of warrior completed, but if the map is decently sized then I doubt someone will really feel like building a warrior and sending it over to harass me... would they? I can delay the whole procedure by 1-2 turns to spit the warrior out, I guess depending on what i find with my scout in the real game.

Reading up on PB8, I think one thing that could drastically change my plans (not in the first 30 turns but near afterwards) is if I'm on a mini-continent where the geography forces me into conflict with some opponent. In that case, I think there's a strong argument towards leveraging the cheap barracks and aggressive trait into a few early, promoted axes and/or chariots to try and at least choke my neighbor. Normally in this long PB games I get the sense slowing my growth curve like that in the beginning is counterproductive, but if I'm forced into essentially a zero sum game with another civilization early I think I'd prefer the fight to occur quickly in the era of few units, when my promotion advantage is an extremely significant factor. Example: I can have shock axes out of the gate, my opponent at best can have c1.

I might be planning for aggression needlessly, but with 17 rival civs I feel like winning the game without emerging victorious from a few early-ish wars will be difficult, just because those who do will have a substantial land advantage.

So ideal situation: I start next to some non-agg, industrial civ who decides to go for something like stonehenge, glh, or the mids, making them both easier to attack and the reward for success greater.

If I'm not near another civ, well, I guess I'm lucky anyway since now I have plenty of land to expand into peaceful like.

[BRickAstley]

Keep in mind, the team that's going to win the thread post count war has 3 of the top 7 posters on the website on their crew (scooter, pindicator, noblehelium), so they're just a bunch of talkative blowhards is all.

I like your general strategy thoughts by the way, they sound good to me Of course I can't give any reasoning feedback since I'm spoiled on opponents and the map, but I'll still post so you're not as lonely.

[Krill]

Best way to get conversation in a thread IMO is to post lots of picture updates, and ask a lot of questions that lurkers are allowed to answer. Normally that's done best by listing different options, but TBH if T-hawk is moderating this forum you could just ask him what the correct choice is and he'd say it's OK for anyone to answer.

[dtay]

All right, more pictures it is!

[dtay]

Ok, first turn is in. I'll type up the sandboxing in more detail over the next few days (I have 15 turns until I have to make real decisions since worker + bronze working at the start is I think pretty obvious). Here's what our start looks like after the SIP and scout move





I can see a lot of potential 2nd/3rd city cites, one down by the gold (sharing the clams?), one sharing the cow's + getting plains wheat. I strongly suspect that those hills to the east contain copper or iron, but that might just be wishful thinking.


Next turn I intend to move the scout NE NE, grabbing the village and the plains hill to survey the land. Notice the scout has been christened "Father", after the true founder of Amestris (and primary antagonist) in FMA. That's right, while perhaps the military-inclined protagonists of FMA will make an appearance, my nation will mostly represent the villains of the series. Mostly cause they're cooler.

Finally, demographics. We're tops in food and GNP (amusingly). Neither by anything remotely significant, especially since from civstats I can see a large number of our rivals didn't SIP. Plako hit 35 points t1, which I think means he must have popped a hut for a tech? I'm very jealous.

I'm probably not going to run a full C&D department because of how many opponents there are, but I'll note the obvious stuff and once I know my neighbors track them more closely.

[dtay]

Here's the actual demographics chart now that most (all but 2) people have ended turn:





Apparently we're the only one's able to work a tile with a commerce, which is somewhat nice I suppose but won't make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. We're (as expected) tied for first in food, since everyone probably started with at least 1 3 food tile in their capital radius.

I'm the soldier count rival best means plako's free tech wasn't bronze working, and I could work backwards from total number of founded cities and number of civs that started with hunting to figure out whether he got hunting, but honestly I don't really think its worth the effort right now. If I end up right next to plako I can go back and try to work it out if its still relevant, but I doubt it.

[dtay]

Turn just rolled so I moved the scout, revealing that we're near the north end of the map. This is a good thing, being in the middle would leave us with more flanks to guard. The deer up north is nice as well, though not worth being the 2nd city site unless there are more resources hiding in the fog. Debating now whether to wheel the scout around or finish off the north.