[PB 55] Miguelito and Mjmd help Amicalola avoid a repetition of last time

[Mjmd]

Or an overly eager to be aggressive green. I'm sure the lurkers don't mind

Did you end up settling the border city first instead of the copper city as #5? Rereading micro, I totally missed you were doing this lol. I thought we were doing copper #5 followed by hill as #6 quickly.

[Miguelito]

I think it's going to be ok. If they sign peace that's actually very good in a critical phase. If we can establish Beer and remain vigilant we have a very good defensive position. Did they whip the cap (spear dry whip might cause some trouble) ?
We have excellent mids and late game traits just like them or arguably more so. Maybe the alliances with SD also can get somewhere still.

[Amicalola]

So, Lewwyn made peace with both us and SD this turn. Glad we offered it, if SD did too! 



Meanwhile, I would like to propose that Blue dot be our 7th city. It starts claiming some of the jungle, especially if we chop a monument there. The settler should be out from Water in about T66-7. Also, I think I've now come to think that putting Tea where we did was a mistake, with Jowy right there. If we'd gone to, say, 1W of wheat, there'd be room for us and Jowy to have 1 ring of cities each. Now it's just awkward. Tea has only taken the sheep for about 4 turns, so I don't think it was worth it. Three cities just might be too many to consistently share a food, trying to learn something from this.



Finally, we founded White Wine this turn. It did end up being after Beer, yeah. I think that was also wrong in retrospect, and we should have indeed gotten our 5th worker instead of Beer, with Beer's settler being started now. Lewwyn didn't seem to have much interest in his NW, although that is 100% hindsight. Instead of having both worker improve the cow when the copper is finished, I would like to send one down to start cottaging and chopping in the south. We will already have 2 improved tiles for 1 city, so I think the third is not a super high priority.

What do you guys think we should be researching next? My take is something like sailing -> writing -> priesthood (oracle) -> masonry, and then try to Oracle maths. What do y'all think? No one we know has priesthood yet.

[Amicalola]

Also, our 3 core cities all have completed granaries now, so I hope the growth curve is about to explode.

Edit: SD might not be the powerful ally I was hoping against Lewwyn. Ruff has nearly twice his food already, and we and Lewwyn are both more than 1.5 his food as well. Demos are quite bad right now, but I am reasonably confident we can start to recover them in the next 20 turns. Cottages and food, here we come!

[Miguelito]

I had a look inside and took the opportunity to save this shot of the wider situation:



I also misclicked on the tech bar, and, not knowing what your research plans were, set it to writing. Thankfully we're saving gold right now.

Blue dot is an option; can we get a workboat there the turn we found?
I also placed an alternativ dot to your beige one 1E of rice: Rice first ring, can look out for Jowy from that peak, and gets river defense. Otoh it's next to a jungle hill over the river, so an enemy stack would be tough to dislodge.
Anyways, surely not before Iron Working. Are we making that a priority btw?

Alternatively to blue dot we could settle pink and try to get brown down soon afterwards. Of course it's not very nice towards Ruff (but do we know how far he is away really?), on the other hand, it'd be a hill border city which we lack otherwise, and flood plains taste better than jungle at this stage of the game.

Also, I think I've now come to think that putting Tea where we did was a mistake, with Jowy right there. If we'd gone to, say, 1W of wheat, there'd be room for us and Jowy to have 1 ring of cities each. Now it's just awkward. Tea has only taken the sheep for about 4 turns, so I don't think it was worth it. Three cities just might be too many to consistently share a food, trying to learn something from this.

I think I don't quite understand this part. Do you think we're seeing Jowy's capital borders there? Otherwise the jungle is second ring for both of us.
Does your assessment of Tea include the granaries? With those I'd expect the 5 food resources to be enough for these 3 cities at least until they grow tall. Speaking of, Coffee is growing to size 4, is a whip in the schedule (worker?)

[Amicalola]

I think I don't quite understand this part. Do you think we're seeing Jowy's capital borders there? Otherwise the jungle is second ring for both of us.
Does your assessment of Tea include the granaries? With those I'd expect the 5 food resources to be enough for these 3 cities at least until they grow tall. Speaking of, Coffee is growing to size 4, is a whip in the schedule (worker?)

Thanks Miguel, shot is useful. 

I am pretty sure it's Jowy's capital yeah, because the culture is 3rd ring level. Can't think of any other way for this than it being his capital. Like I said, we actually started very close!

Tea will be MUCH better when we have Moai there, which I think should be a priority. Maybe even before we have stone hooked up. Depends on if we want to go for masonry before or after Iron Working. 

I think I like your yellow dot better in the jungle. One thing to consider is that as you say, we obviously need Iron Working, and actually I think we should make that a priority. Maybe even next tech, or tech after sailing/writing. I think it is very possible that Jowy grabs that spot before us though, or at least somewhere that makes it unviable for us.

Coffee is going to whip a worker, yeah, and then overflow into a work boat for Beer, followed by probably a work boat for city 7 (if we go to blue dot).

[Amicalola]

Ah sorry I didn't see part of your post. I am inclined to go for pink and brown before the jungle (while we are heading towards IW) personally. It depends on how scared we are of Ruff. Worth noting is that brown dot is SIGNIFICANTLY further away from Ruff than the jungle is from Jowy. I think brown dot is about the middle point between us and Ruff, but second ring, whereas that jungle is first ring for us and Jowy.

Maybe a middle ground approahc is best. Something like south blue dot (7), then Pink (8) and Brown (9) dots. Blue is totally fine before Iron Working, and means we establish at least a foothold in the jungle area.

[Miguelito]

I may be wrong, but couldn't that Jowy culture be the result of 2 cities, one of them with popped 2nd ring?
I even think that the irregular colour intensity in the overview shot confirms that, comparing for example with Lewynn' s capital border, but I might be totally wrong. My main argument is that the jungle capital wouldbe a bit strange, but maybe I haven't looked close enough.

If you can get both workboats in pace in time I'm totally on board with blue.

I'd like some scouting towards Ruff, maybe with one of the chariots? Just don't appear aggressive.

[Amicalola]

Do you know if the barb city would be guarded by warriors or archers right now? I think it spawned sometime around T50, though that's not exact. If it's warriors, I'm really tempted to send 2 chariots down there right now and WHACK it.

I'm pretty sure I could get the second work boat down in time.Need to double check though. 

I had thought the culture map was confirmation of capital hahahah. If we look at everyone's capitals, for whatever reason the central first-ring around it is bold. No other cities have that for anyone. Then we see one tile like that for Jowy's city, which fits in with where his first ring would be IF capital. Now you have me wondering too though, so let's not 100% confirm it.

[Mjmd]

Wait on stone for Maoi / more map knowledge.

I think that is his capital based on the culture. I'm assuming only reason he hasn't expanded that way is the jungle.

Your talking light blue clam dot right? I like that spot.

The question is how many directions do you think you can be pulled in. Obviously we now have 1 neighbor who probably has at least a mild grudge, but may be too busy to bother us. We have 3 spots within spitting distance of a southern neighbor and then 1 city out west. All while economy is crashing.

I would rather have the south than 1 brown dot out west. The brown dot floodplain city even if it is halfway (which we don't know), doesn't have anything around it. Meanwhile the barb city (overall contested land) and the 3 dots south are also cottage havens. If we settle brown dot your at the very least giving Civac a target. Settling any of the southern cities is probably going to anger Jowy. I would rather pick up 4 cities vs 1 and hopefully have 1 dmz. Now if Jowy or Civac were in drawn out wars in the early game and looked weak I could see pushing luck a bit more.