[SPOILERS - PBEM17] Kyan Does Dallas. The Orange Sensation.

[oledavy]

So, it seems as though we'll be continuing with this game. More about the dilemmas this presents later, but for now: turn 153.



I accepted the deal, and the city of Plako passed under my control; I renamed it Moscow. Rego whipped the city down to one pop before it fell. A bit spiteful, but I can't say I would have done any differently. Here's the infrastructure that survived the siege:



The wonders are worthless at this point but the academy is nice. A real pity I didn't get a bigger haul though. One consequence of Rego whipping the city down is that it will not be making 30gpt for me for quite awhile. I'm asking Shoot if I can delay payments until the city legitimately starts making 30 commerce every turn by itself before funneling him money out of my treasury.

Shoot and Darrell voted for me, so I am now the Jewish Pope, for whatever it's worth at this point.



This turn, I founded three cities, with five more coming up soon.













Shoot will probably not be happy with the placement of VE Day, as it competes with the SevenSpirits location for the crab (in the second ring of both cities). Since I'm creative, I should be able to retain the resource and make VE Day a profitable little fishing village. It also should be able to nab and hold that ivory tile.

These cities are costing me a bundle right now. State Property will be a godsend for me when I finally research communism. However, they'll all start up pretty quickly and will be contributing to the empire soon.



The war weariness still hadn't gone away yet, and I had 1384 saved up for my push to assembly line.

One of my major mistakes this game has not been running many specialists for the last few dozen turns. This has left me hurting for Great People to kick off an anarchy free golden age and civic switches. I'm trying to rectify that now and pull three together before my switch to Universal Suffrage/Free Speech/Emancipation/State Property.

So, long story short, I decided to revolt into Free Religion to get more out of my next science push and to give me a turn for war weariness to come off.



In international tech news, Shoot researched physics and NoSpace got rocketry.

It pains me to show this table now, but in the interest of good reporting:



As for my armies, I'm splitting them up and shipping them around to serve as city garrisons for my new holdings. I'm probably going to start deleting some of my older MP units when the rifles return from the front. Even if I do embark on another war, rifles are nearly worthless against mass infantry, so they're being retired to serve as MP in place of the warriors that have been guarding my cities since time immemorial. As you may have noticed in the financial advisor shot above, my military is costing me 24 gpt in upkeep. These costs are only going to get worse as I get all my East Indiamen back from Shoot. I'm a little at a lost of what to do with all my surplus ships. Saving gold is rather important right now.

So, here's my before shot of the Incan core compared to a picture I took at the end of this turn:





The postwar world also ended up looking exactly like I wanted it to.



I didn't end up getting the SevenSpirits location but I did get the Pindicator spot.

Now the question for this game is thus: how do I want to end it? I've already elaborated on this a bit previously, but I have not yet made up my mind. Do I:

1. Build my empire peacefully while I wait for either NoSpace or Darrell to win a space victory.
2. Start another war: Dave and Shoot's ride of the damned to stop the spaceships from launching.

Shoot is at least open to the idea of number 2. He's been wanting to stick it to NoSpace ever since they stole his iron spot from him. I like this idea better simply because it would be more fun that pressing end turn while waiting for NoSpace or Darrell's victory. My qualm regarding this would be that it involves me backstabbing Darrell, which really doesn't sit right with me. Then again, it is just a game, and wars are fun

I will probably cancel NAPs with both of them regardless, just to make them both a little worried as to my intent. Perhaps I could secure a bribe from one to attack the other...

So, lurkers, would you rather this game play out peacefully or would you rather watch the world burn?

[oledavy]

[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: dave
I sent you an unbalanced resource trade in case you want to help me beat nospace
I thin you need the sheep anyway, if you want to trade just for that spcies is the one that would help me the most
anyway considering rego gave shoot 2 great people I don't think its cheap move in any way[/COLOR]

hmmm.....

(btw, presuming that's a mistype and Rego gifted great people to NoSpace).

Mulling over the situation this afternoon, I came up with a plan of sorts:

1. Convince Shoot to undertake this venture, he goes after NoSpace and I go after Darrell.
2. After rebuilding a bit and getting more destroyers in the water (~10 turns from now), threaten NoSpace and cancel the NAP with them.
3. Secure a large bribe from NoSpace to not attack them and attack Darrell instead.
4. Cancel the NAP with Darrell, and kick off the war. I attack Darrell, and Shoot attacks NoSpace. Drag them both down simultaneously and try to prevent them from launching their spaceships.

Bit of an ethical issue here, reminiscent of Rego's situation at the conclusion PB4. Give up winning and support an ally who's been faithful to you, or go all out for the slim chance at victory. The only way I can conceivably see winning would have me backstabbing Darrell. Which is the more ethical choice? Always playing a game for your civ's victory? Or supporting your ally. Rego received a lot of flak after PB4 for not throwing in with the Parkin Violators and giving up on winning the game. I really sympathize with his situation now that I'm in it. So yeah.......going to talk it over with Shoot and get his take:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey Shoot!

Whenever you have some free time to chat, let's talk about PBEM17. While I doubt either of us can win, we certainly can still do a lot to shape the outcome. What are your thoughts on a World War III, a ride of the damned to stop the spaceships from launching? Minuscule chance of victory, but it would be fun

Dave[/COLOR]

For better or worse, we're the underdogs. Neither of us can win the game, but either one of us can shape its outcome and determine who does win.

[NobleHelium]

How exactly did LP help regoarrarr in PB4...?

[oledavy]

In PB4 (though I'm probably not the most qualified to comment), it was not so much a case of Parkin being a good ally as Rego trying to aggressively settle on Plako; with Plako becoming antagonistic as a result. Faced with a hostile neighbor to the sout, Parkin filled that void to create a secure border.

The analogy isn't perfect, it's just the closest situation I could think of to the one I'm currently faced with.

[Gaspar]

How exactly did LP help regoarrarr in PB4...?

EDIT: And so I'm not trolling your thread - on your "ethical" dilemma - I think in general you're WAAAY too cute with your diplo, but ultimately you should do what's going to bring the most enjoyment for the rest of the game without ruining the game for others.

In your analogy, attacking nospace with Shoot while leaving Darrell to launch would be the PB4-Zulu solution. Attacking them both would be, erm, I don't have an analogy. I, of course, have a strong opinion as to what *I* would do in your situation, but that's not appropriate in my standing as a global lurker.

[Lord Parkin]

How exactly did LP help regoarrarr in PB4...?

Railroading his territory for him... upgrading his Maces to Rifles, Galleys to Transports, Catapults to Cannons... providing dozens of mercenaries to help him fight his battles... offering up pretty much all of Plako's land to him, without him having to lift a finger. Amongst other things.

Just saying, he had a pretty sweet deal. Though of course I needed to offer a pretty sweet deal for any alliance with me to make sense at that point in that game. Plus, as oledavy mentioned, Rego already had a bit of a bee in his bonnet about the division of land between him and Plako after the WK war (justified or not, it had nothing at all to do with me), so he was already somewhat open to the idea of working against Plako before I offered to help him out.

Oledavy, in your situation I'd say go with whatever your gut says. If you'd prefer to make a last ditch attempt at winning, by all means go ahead. If you'd prefer to support a faithful ally rather than backstabbing, that's also fine. I don't think this is a decision the lurkers can (or should) make for you - it's up to you to decide your own ending.

[oledavy]

Opened the turn to see the offer from Darrell



I'm not exactly keen on trading all that happy away, especially when I'm in the process of regrowing my cities. Darrell even has his own ivory which he paved over with a workshop, and he hasn't obsoleted it with industrialism yet. I'm getting +2 happy for ivory (markets), so I opted to refuse his offer, and trade him spices and pigs for sheep:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey Darrell -

Traded you spices and pigs for sheep. Anything for the cause.

Dave[/COLOR]

I have an additional source of ivory coming online next turn. I'm planning on trading it to Shoot for his spare incense.

Speaking of Shoot:



That amount of gold is consistent with losing 14 East Indiamen, which I am pretty sure is wrong. I turned it down in case of it being a mistake. I have enough gold to run 100% this and next turn, so I can afford a delay.

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey Shoot -

You offered me 742 gold in game (corresponding to 14 East Indiamen lost, which I was pretty sure was incorrect). I thought this might have been a misclick, so I refused - I don't need the gold to run research next turn anyway. If it was correct, please re-offer

Have any plans for that spare incense by chance?

I'll begin making payouts for Plako next turn, though it won't be producing 30 gpt by itself for awhile since Rego whipped it down so badley.

Settler will be gifted to you two turns from now.

Dave[/COLOR]

Rego gifted me back five airships and the two workers this turn as well.

I refounded the Profane location this turn:





I micro'd all of my new cities in the East to pop borders next turn and lay claim to the land.

Revolting into free religion and running 100% science gave my GNP a noticeable boost, and turned assembly line into a two turn tech. I was surprised and happy to see in the demographics that my GNP was in third instead of last place, and is actually halfway decent stacked up against Darrell and NoSpace's. I'm now making nearly 800gpt at max gold and losing 500gpt at max science, which is a pretty big improvement over a few dozen turns ago. Now just to work on getting back to tech parity....

[oledavy]

[COLOR="Green"]Dave,

I have 6 EI left, so that is 14 lost correct?

Shoot[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey,

Yes that is correct, I had no idea Rego sank so many of them.

Thanks!
Dave[/COLOR]

I had no idea Rego was able to inflict so much damage on the Shoot's Navy. I'm actually kinda happy about this. It means I don't have nearly as big of a a surplus of ships costing me money, and I get to run an additional 1.5 turns of 100% research. Converting hammers to gold is fine by me.

I deleted my remaining pair of frigates this last turn. After Shoot returns my East Indiamen, my navy will stand at 17 EIs and 1 destroyer - with more destroyers being built. That's about how many East Indiamen I want going into peacetime, enough to ferry a substantial army and serve as sentries, but not so many that I'm going broke.

[regoarrarr]

Rego whipped the city down to one pop before it fell. A bit spiteful, but I can't say I would have done any differently. Here's the infrastructure that survived the siege:

I think it was size 7 on the last turn, and I drafted it for 1 pop, whipped a MG for 2 pop, swapped to and dry-whipped a spite theater for 2 pop and then all the unhappies caused it to starve for the final pop.

So it was only 33% spite

[oledavy]

So it was only 33% spite

I gotcha, still, should be able to grow it back pretty quickly with three food bonuses