Intersite Game - Turn Discussion Thread

[kjn]

I'm back now, and spent some time in the game.

Adventure One in golden age and bureaucracy (now #4 in top cities):




I guess AO and Horse Feathers will swap the grass hill mine and corn next turn, putting AO in quick (but not rapid) growth mode.

The polar region between us and the Germans:




I also checked out the possible island to the west of Ruff Going (to the west of the iced iron in the above picture) with the flying camera, and I think it's part of the main landmass, ie the area of land that Sian started to explore a long while back probably goes quite a bit farther north.

GNP analysis showed no surprises, and there were no major changes in resources. CivFr has a silk connected now, and CFC is up to two silks and two wines, but that's about it.

[Ceiliazul]

After all the discussion about Liberalism, I see we're still set to learn Metal Casting this turn. I think that's a mistake, and should be set to Philo or Paper asap.

KJN, there was a question from Boldly today about when Apolyton's last GP was born. Do you have that info? Seems like we attibuted a "distant land" Scientist to them within the last 5 turns, right?

I did a bit of fog gazing too, but from our side of the world wrap. Lots of good stuff:
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid356064

[Bigger]

After all the discussion about Liberalism, I see we're still set to learn Metal Casting this turn. I think that's a mistake, and should be set to Philo or Paper asap.

KJN, there was a question from Boldly today about when Apolyton's last GP was born. Do you have that info? Seems like we attibuted a "distant land" Scientist to them within the last 5 turns, right?

I did a bit of fog gazing too, but from our side of the world wrap. Lots of good stuff:
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid356064

its a placeholder tech, Sulla mentioned he would change it before the turn rolls.

I'm telling you now so Sulla doesnt have to do another "why aren't you reading my reports" rant
(ahem, I am, hehe).

[Ceiliazul]

I was afraid the turn would roll while we weren't looking, but I can clearly see now that we haven't ended our own turn yet. So, yeah, nevermind.

[NobleHelium]

We don't have silk, do we? Can we trade gems for silk with CFC?

Edit: Wait, we do have silk at HF. Never mind.

[kjn]

A few questions: What is our best guess for when CivFr would be able to tech Nationalism?

No idea, though they are quite a bit away from the tech. They still lack CoL and CS, and then they will probably go through Philosophy (Divine Right is quite a bit more expensive, and requires Theology as well). So 630, 1440, 1440, and then 3240 for Nationalism. So they're 6750 beakers away. We are circa 6400 beakers away from Liberalism, assuming a single-GS bulb of Education.

Right now I think they're running breakeven science, with a slight surplus. So if CivFr beelines Nationalism, they will handily beat us to Taj Mahal, but they will have to leave quite a bit of techs (MC, Currency) behind.

Our lack of access to marble is critical, so if we could find any way to pin CFC down on when we can get our 10 turn window for marble (am I imagining this, or was this part of the NAP/free gift of stone + spices?), that would go a long way to securing Taj. Also, have Apolotyn built any marble wonders/have access to marble? If they would have to build it without marble, the 20t build sounds ok with CivFr so behind on the top of the tech tree.

Yes, marble from CFC for 10t was part of the deal. However, CFC does not have marble yet, and with the war with the Spanish ongoing I doubt they will connect it in time for helping us build Taj Mahal.

Apolyton hasn't built a single wonder so far in the game.

One last question: when was Apolotyn's last GP? They're PHI and bulbed Philosophy, so it wouldn't be hard for them to swap to Pacifism/Caste and birth several scientists themselves.

Yeah, that's the way I imagine they can beat us to Liberalism. Here is the timeline for great people:

T68: GS
T84: GS and GPr (RB)
T95: GS (probably CivPlayers)
T97: GS
T101: GS (CFC)
T106: GS (Apolyton)
T116: GS
T120: GAr (CivFr)

I'm fairly sure that Apolyton used their first GS in their second city, and then used a second in their capital. I think either the T84 or the T97 GS is from Apolyton, and the other from CivFr. I wouldn't be surprised if the T116 GS was from Apolyton either, though Univers is also a candidate.

So worst case Apolyton already has a GS ready to use, but doing our stunt with a golden age to pop into caste is probably weaker for them since they have so much less pop than us. That means they are limited to 12 or 18 GPPpt (18 with a forge and engineer).

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

A few questions: What is our best guess for when CivFr would be able to tech Nationalism?

No idea, though they are quite a bit away from the tech. They still lack CoL and CS, and then they will probably go through Philosophy (Divine Right is quite a bit more expensive, and requires Theology as well). So 630, 1440, 1440, and then 3240 for Nationalism. So they're 6750 beakers away. We are circa 6400 beakers away from Liberalism, assuming a single-GS bulb of Education.

Right now I think they're running breakeven science, with a slight surplus. So if CivFr beelines Nationalism, they will handily beat us to Taj Mahal, but they will have to leave quite a bit of techs (MC, Currency) behind.

Our lack of access to marble is critical, so if we could find any way to pin CFC down on when we can get our 10 turn window for marble (am I imagining this, or was this part of the NAP/free gift of stone + spices?), that would go a long way to securing Taj. Also, have Apolotyn built any marble wonders/have access to marble? If they would have to build it without marble, the 20t build sounds ok with CivFr so behind on the top of the tech tree.

Yes, marble from CFC for 10t was part of the deal. However, CFC does not have marble yet, and with the war with the Spanish ongoing I doubt they will connect it in time for helping us build Taj Mahal.

Apolyton hasn't built a single wonder so far in the game.

One last question: when was Apolotyn's last GP? They're PHI and bulbed Philosophy, so it wouldn't be hard for them to swap to Pacifism/Caste and birth several scientists themselves.

Yeah, that's the way I imagine they can beat us to Liberalism. Here is the timeline for great people:

T68: GS
T84: GS and GPr (RB)
T95: GS (probably CivPlayers)
T97: GS
T101: GS (CFC)
T106: GS (Apolyton)
T116: GS
T120: GAr (CivFr)

I'm fairly sure that Apolyton used their first GS in their second city, and then used a second in their capital. I think either the T84 or the T97 GS is from Apolyton, and the other from CivFr. I wouldn't be surprised if the T116 GS was from Apolyton either, though Univers is also a candidate.

So worst case Apolyton already has a GS ready to use, but doing our stunt with a golden age to pop into caste is probably weaker for them since they have so much less pop than us. That means they are limited to 12 or 18 GPPpt (18 with a forge and engineer).

Thanks for the information.

1. CivFr: It is hard to believe that any team would continue to ignore Currency before making a large investment as would be required by Nationalism. CivFr lacking the follow up tech (CoL) further enhances their difficulty in bridging the gap through bulbing. From a city management perspective, it makes little sense to go so far as Nationalism, and then have to go back to tech/build markets, courthouses, and forges. I would be hesitant to put off so much infrastructure in all cities just for an additional GA that I could achieve in a single city running specialists in the meantime.
   
2. CFC: I want my marble /rage. That is all.
   
3. Apolyton: So we think that Apolyton has made 3 GP so far. What is the cost of a hypothetical fourth GP for a PHI civ? They could already have the scientist in the queue for a second GS (assuming worst case that they still have retained one from many turns ago, ~T106, for planning purposes). I guess this is impossible to know for certain until we see them bulb something past Paper, at which point it's a sprint to the finish line.
   

[Tyrmith]

If CFC is playing the realpolitik game they probably care less about helping us gain anything that gives us, the frontrunner team, a farther gain, when instead they can just do nothing and hope we get screwed.

[kjn]

If CFC is playing the realpolitik game they probably care less about helping us gain anything that gives us, the frontrunner team, a farther gain, when instead they can just do nothing and hope we get screwed.

Agree. Though with that war going on and the marble quite close to Spanish land, CFC not getting marble connected might not necessarily be because of realpolitik reasons, or at least not realpolitik aimed at us.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Temporary worker gift? DoW Spaniards, guard marble with war elephants ?