League of Legends General Discussion Thread

[Gold Ergo Sum]

I don't care how much someone thinks a dunk off between LeBron and Durant would be awesome to watch, it can't take the place of an NBA Finals games, because the advertisers would go nuts.

This isn't exactly true. The players couldn't do this in an NBA Finals game because the refs would simply call them for travelling, 24-second shot violations, and all the various other rules of the game that would be broken. There doesn't appear to be anything fundamentally structured into LoL at the competitive scene that would prevent the teams from playing the ARAM.

The advertisers might well go nuts, but basketball in the NBA is structured in such a way that you really cannot go outside the bounds of the normal competition.

[Speaker]

Playing an ARAM in the finals of a major competition, with a significant viewing audience with serious money on the line made a total mockery of the tournament. You'd never do that normally so it is simply unacceptable and I fully agree with them losing the prize money and any season points.

Perfectly sums up my thoughts. It's about time that something was done to show the pros that their behavior is unacceptable, and hopefully that will filter down to the rest of the community.

[Coggen]

My question is really all about which rule did they break? You can be sure that the NBA rules clearly prescribe how the game is to be played, and would not have allowed a dunk contest to take place. Does MLG have a similar set of strongly written rules? Did they stop the players from playing the ARAM? If not, then punishing them for the ever fuzzy "breaking the spirit" clause just does not sit well, particularly because they really did no harm to their sponsors.

"Harm to the sponsor" in this case meaning costing them current or future revenue. If MLG had done nothing after the event, would anyone even be talking about this? Would viewers be less likely to watch future events? It's a matter of opinion I suppose, but to me it seems like a clear no. The ARAM was unusual, but we've seen players do unusual things in tournaments before in the form of weird picks or team comps.

I understand the player's responsibilities to their sponsors. Those responsibilities are contractual, and the only accusation being thrown around that appears to break the rules we can access is match fixing, which seems incredibly unlikely. It's possible the teams, their sponsors, and MLG agreed to terms we don't see, in which case the teams certainly deserve punishment if they broke them. But from the information we have, I don't understand where MLG is getting it's justification for their actions.


As an aside, I'd also argue that fans would not be at all buzzed to see an NBA finals game decided by a dunking contest. That's an event they'd sure like to see, but not at that time. I don't think the comparisons to professional sports are very good ones in this situation. I am among those who are excited to see e-sports grow, but I don't think modeling our leagues off of the NBA or NFL is always going to be the correct decision.


EDIT: I'm not disagreeing with the idea that they shouldn't have played the ARAM. I'm not quite so...angry about it as some, but I can see why one might feel that way. My concern is that MLG let the players play their ARAM and the rest of the match, and then punished them for reasons that are unclear or unlikely. They've said it wasn't the ARAM, so what was it?

[Sir Bruce]

This isn't exactly true. The players couldn't do this in an NBA Finals game because the refs would simply call them for travelling, 24-second shot violations, and all the various other rules of the game that would be broken. There doesn't appear to be anything fundamentally structured into LoL at the competitive scene that would prevent the teams from playing the ARAM.

The advertisers might well go nuts, but basketball in the NBA is structured in such a way that you really cannot go outside the bounds of the normal competition.

They could play HORSE and stay within the official rules. David Stern would probably murder someone.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

David Stern would probably murder someone.

QFT. Several players would wake up with horse heads in their beds.

[Krill]

This isn't exactly true. The players couldn't do this in an NBA Finals game because the refs would simply call them for travelling, 24-second shot violations, and all the various other rules of the game that would be broken. There doesn't appear to be anything fundamentally structured into LoL at the competitive scene that would prevent the teams from playing the ARAM.

The advertisers might well go nuts, but basketball in the NBA is structured in such a way that you really cannot go outside the bounds of the normal competition.

This. Consider what the commentators were saying about the cheating in the ARAM with people dying to turrets.

[kayapo]

My question is really all about which rule did they break?

This is also a debate of ethics and not just simple hard cold rules.

One thing has to be clear, as it was stated by Riot and by MLG they were not disqualified for doing an ARAM, they were disqualified because of the acusations of spliting the money. (See http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/show...6#28677156 and http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/show...6#28677156 )

Let`s understand a bit of the vibe that was around this tournament. The 2 top teams, TSM and CLG, did not play in the tournment because they did not want to show their strategies so close to the Season 2 Regionals. During the day, before the finals between Curse and Dignitas, numerous people tweeted that Curse and Dignitas settled on spliting the prize money, cause both of them did not want to have to show their own strategies.

They proceed to do an ARAM on the first game. If MLG were suspicious at this point, the ARAM really made up their minds that these final games were not being played with the spirit of competition.

In my opinion, it was easy to make the decision after the ARAM. Maybe if they didn`t do the ARAM the alegations would be dismissed as just rumors, but honestly if it was my call I would disqualify both teams too after seeing the ARAM. To me it is clear that they did not play these games in the true spirtit of competition, just scriming against eachother for a bit of fun. Playing to win, sure, but not really competing for anything meaningful.

Back to the discussion of ethics.

I see a lot of people saying "so what if they want to split the money?".

I believe these people are failing to see the big picture. It`s not about the $40k, it`s not about the 10 players involved. It is about the reputation of the tournment, the reputation of the sponsors, the reputation of Riot and everything they are trying to acomplish in esports.

Imagine a Superbowl final where there both teams were seen early in the day having lunch together and talking about spliting the prize. Then they proceed to play the first half with the quaterbacks playing receivers, RBs playing defense, etc. Would anyone really believe in the outcome of that match?

It might be enterteinment, but it sure as hell isn`t sports.

In sports, it goes without saying that both parties are doing everything they can to win. It is the premise of a sport competition. If you soil that with doubts, you are left with a farce.

By doing what they did, the threw a shadow over the matches, the tournments and even over Riot and League of Legends. The next match I watch, i`m going to wonder to myself if it is for real, or if they are just "screwing around".

I do believe they did decide to split the prize, but even that is irrelevant now, since the ARAM alone is enough to cast such a doubt over these games that if it the collusion was true or not completely lost importance.

If this was done by your NFL/NBA/NHL or whatever team they would probably be banned from the sport or at least suspended for a few years, or risk having people start to see the competition as WWE, enterteinment but not a sport.

[uberfish]

After the Olympic badminton DQ fiasco they should know better.

The dumb thing is, I imagine it'd be easy to prearrange the result of a LoL game without anyone being the wiser... they'd have gotten away with it if they hadn't been so blatant about it.

[VoiceOfUnreason]

What the players want to do is irrelevant. It's not about them, or what they want.

Sounds right to me: the sponsors certainly get a vote on what kind of contest they are buying with their prize money.

If Curse and Dignitas want to be hired to play exhibitions against each other, they should be up front about it.


Super Bowl analogy is probably the wrong one to use. Competitive poker or competitive dance would seem closer - though those analogies are not without their own problems.


From the look of the Curse FB page, it seems a grownup grabbed someone by the scruff of the neck and rubbed their nose in it. Maybe it will take.

[Sullla]

I saw a nice post on reddit that echoed kayapo's thoughts:

I do not see it as a "stupid ARAM mistake" I see it as an incredibly foolish move from both Crs and Dig when it comes down to underestimating the worth of legitimate competition to MLG and Riot. They were both happy to get to the finals, knew they'd both be at Regionals next week and didn't want to reveal any strats they may have prepared so instead of both trying their hardest to win played the half assed games they did. TSM and CLG.NA were in a similar position of not wanting to reveal strats, they decided to not attend MLG.

The moment you decide to compete in the tournament you are agreeing to the unwritten rule in competitive sport, of trying your hardest to win and not pulling punches. If Dig and Crs believed withholding information from future opponents was more important than trying to win then neither of them should have entered the tournament.

Again, if they wanted to hold back strategies or whatever, then they shouldn't have entered the tournament.