[PB79] MirOh No, what am I doing?

[Mjmd]

This is some of the most brutal late game warfare I've ever seen in a greens game. Don't feel bad for being tripped up by a lot of the mechanics of industrial era civ warfare - few players get an opportunity to see how it works in practice.

That's a good point. When I have the game loaded up, I can be doom-and-gloom about the smallest things going wrong, but within a few hours I can distance myself from it and be happy about the experience we're all sharing. Sometimes I want the win, sometimes I want to tackle xist and drag us both down to 4th place, and sometimes I'm just positive about the game overall (but not the pace - a month of warfare is draining!)

I can't tell you how rare this is for a green player. It took me GAMES and GAMES before I could gain tough enough skin to just move on.

Q1) Glances around about things I should have done T30. Yes yes I do. 
- Events.
- BORDERS. And scouting. DEAR GOD LOOK AT THE SITUATION BEFORE STARTING TO DO THINGS!!!! Have I been burned by this. Yes.
- Not as relevant in this time period, but quick quick glance at demos and graphs (and pbspy if playing pts on) can help you know if an attack is coming.
- THINK. Early on and in single player we are so used to just starting to play our turns. You are well past that stage.
Q2) At one point CtH had ability to go into a file in civ folder and copy the combat log. I actually don't know if this is still a thing or not. There were some issues with. I don't believe so on events log, but someone else may know.
Q3) I sadly have never really messed around with; maybe someone else knows.

I am really getting PB66 vibes where #2 dragged down #1  allowing others to catch up and they never could be bothered to get off their butts. Now here I fully expect Coldrain to attack you again despite you giving him his city back that he  should have demanded from Xist the first time he helped him......

[klops]

with railroads down, you'll never know which way those tanks roll... our paranoia likes this

I only did one multiplayer, but checking pbspy and forum even before logging in is a good idea to notice war declarations.
I usually took a few pictures and logged off to think about it. Don't be in a rush as a general advice... but I never was even close to your detailed analysis, so... respect for this, get's you on the wiinners lane if others don't pay that much attention.

[Miro]

(...)

I can't tell you how rare this is for a green player. It took me GAMES and GAMES before I could gain tough enough skin to just move on.

Q1) Glances around about things I should have done T30. Yes yes I do. 
- Events.
- BORDERS. And scouting. DEAR GOD LOOK AT THE SITUATION BEFORE STARTING TO DO THINGS!!!! Have I been burned by this. Yes.
- Not as relevant in this time period, but quick quick glance at demos and graphs (and pbspy if playing pts on) can help you know if an attack is coming.
- THINK. Early on and in single player we are so used to just starting to play our turns. You are well past that stage.
Q2) At one point CtH had ability to go into a file in civ folder and copy the combat log. I actually don't know if this is still a thing or not. There were some issues with. I don't believe so on events log, but someone else may know.
Q3) I sadly have never really messed around with; maybe someone else knows.

I am really getting PB66 vibes where #2 dragged down #1  allowing others to catch up and they never could be bothered to get off their butts. Now here I fully expect Coldrain to attack you again despite you giving him his city back that he  should have demanded from Xist the first time he helped him......

Well cool, another positive takeaway! I'm embarrassed to say that I forgot the Event Log existed until like my 3rd war this game (1v1 vs xist). Now I'm glued to the thing.
And yeah, I missed some opportunities just by issuing routine Worker moves too early. Been practicing patience more and more.

I thought coldrain would stay neutral for a while, but I guess my border is a juicier target for him.

with railroads down, you'll never know which way those tanks roll... our paranoia likes this

I only did one multiplayer, but checking pbspy and forum even before logging in is a good idea to notice war declarations.
I usually took a few pictures and logged off to think about it. Don't be in a rush as a general advice... but I never was even close to your detailed analysis, so... respect for this, get's you on the wiinners lane if others don't pay that much attention.

Right??? I'm counting Tanks at least twice per turn.

But when I log into PBSpy, I just see scary shit like this:


Like bro, calm down!

[Miro]

T278 Tech Update:

Quick update on techs.

On T263, I estimated our total beakers as:



Now on T278:





Coldrain finished Fission. I'm saving up money right now and got a Great Merchant! I might go for Sid's Sushi before Fission, not sure yet.

[Mjmd]

If only coldrain has fission then ya I would detour for sid sushi. Having population to whip away for nukes is a good idea.

Is Coldrain looking aggressive?

[Miro]

If only coldrain has fission then ya I would detour for sid sushi. Having population to whip away for nukes is a good idea.

Is Coldrain looking aggressive?

Ehhh, not particularly. I think we sent Fish for Fish before the war (T245 I DoW'd xist), then on T262 coldrain canceled borders with me during the 100-unit stack sack of Oea. On T265, coldrain sent Fish for Fish (I reciprocated).

If he DoWs, I'd guess it'd be because of a bribe from xist.

He built up a sizable army and navy and they've each been stationary on the "NA army" and "NA Navy" marked tiles for at least a month:





9

[Miro]

T283 Update:

TL;DR: I lost 2 cities, big Tank battle, I founded Sushi.

The Lunar New Year has come, moving China from the year of the Dragon to the year of the Snake! 
Our previous buffs: natural courage, tenacity, and intelligence, often displaying enthusiasm and confidence.
Our new buffs: intuition, strategic, and intelligence.

I didn't see the intelligence buff help me play better, but maybe my base INT is so low that it's helping bring me up to average -- I'll take it!



T277:

I got a Great Merchant!! This is probably my last GP of the game and had a 77% chance to be a GM. Sushi is on the menu!
I also finished Mt Rushmore.
xist and I finished Rocketry and Gira opened borders with me, welcoming the threat to xist's northern islands (but my Transports are empty).
After my message threatening those islands, xist didn't take peace, but his navy turned around and he began reinforcing those northern islands.
My hope is that xist and I stay calm for a while. He has 5 Carriers, 7 Transports.

I learned that Fighter combat logs don't show up, just the simple "Fighter was shot down / intercepted (-X%)" messages, so I don't know how strong his Fighters are.

I accidentally ended this turn too early, but had did about 95% of what I wanted. Would have whipped more if I could. Wish I could disable the "Enter" button ending turn.
I adjusted some settings after this, now my units don't move from a single click and won't have mistakes like the Transport miss click last month.

T278:

Quiet. Xist navy moved back to his lake and he whipped like crazy this turn! I'm getting a few SAMs, not sure how many I want, yet.

T279:

Quiet. I see 41 Tanks for Xist. It's gotta be fun to have the air superiority, he gets to keep bombing all he wants. 

I tallied the global forces:


T280:

Xist landed on Salem island again. I hoped the threat earlier would buy me another 5T. I have to evacuate Salem, it's not an island I can efficiently defend.
On the bright side, Xist owning Salem island may make him more of a target for coldrain? The entire south sea is basically NA vs Carthage.
Xist's geography also seems AWFUL for a 1v3. I'm really looking forward to that war.

I considered going full-send with my north navy towards xist's inner islands, drawing his navy out to fight, then going full-send with my south navy to hit a major city or two, but it's risky and NA would probably block my retreat (assuming we re-open borders).





T281:

Xist got a GE, not sure what he can use it for this late in the game, but he's holding on to it. Maybe they can rush Manhattan Project. Ew.
Xist razed Salem and his navy returned to his favorite lake.
I have 1 - 2 SAMs in most cities at our border now.
Lots of Wealth building this turn, I want Refrigeration, Fission, and Military Tradition in a reasonable time frame.

T282:

Gira finished Rocketry. War is getting quiet, xist is bombing what little he still can. I set up a map to ID which tiles are protected by SAMs and which are in range of xist's air units. I still can't put my Fighters on Intercept yet.
He has 8 Carriers now - I pushed both of my navies forward to try and deter his Carriers from pushing on either side. Transports are empty on both sides, though, so I'm stuck bluffing.

I did another army analysis, he has ~69 units missing. Hiding units in Transports is only fun when I do it.

Gira moved a few Tanks in range to blitz Lilybaeum (previously Sarim Batim).



His Bombers' range:


His Fighters' range (with possible Carrier moves)



I'm worried about him hitting Mediolanum. His Tanks are in range and his Transports are in range. I have 60+ units there and in Republic o Rome to deter Tanks, but still. Plenty in Pan Fall o Rome to stop the Hill-moving Marines.



T283:

I finished Refrigeration and founded Sid's Sushi! Spreading the sushi ASAP.



Alright! Now we're gettin' somewhere. Peace at last, peace at last, and he doesn't even ask for 4 cities from me this time -- heeyyyyy wait a minute.



Xist razed Republic o Rome! JFC. That was supposed to be the safe city. Them damned Bombers, man. It's really cool how Industrial to (early) Modern warfare develops. Railroads + Cannons are so good at defending that land-based attacks become impossible, but then when Bombers are online, Tanks can have a field day if the city is close enough to the border.

Xist has 80 Tanks, 21 SAMs on the side, and 1 Knight. He upgraded most of those SAMs last turn. He also destroyed most of my Railroads again.

These turns are interesting, they start with a puzzle to see whether or not I can even get enough Railroads up to hit his army.
Here's the map with # of Workers on each tile:



Aside from my newest Worker (SE city), all Workers start on a tile with no railroads. I need a railroad to connect the NW city and the rest of my network to his army.

My solution:
(1/1) SE City Worker to Cow Pasture -> 1/2 Railroad
(1/3) Cow Pasture stay -> 2/2 Railroad

(2/3) Cow Pasture to Plains north of lake -> 1/2 Railroad
(3/3) Cow Pasture to Plains north of lake -> 2/2 Railroad

(1/2) Winery (1S of Lake) stay -> 1/2 Railroad
(2/2) Winery (1S of Lake) stay -> 2/2 Railroad

(1/2) Winery (2S of Lake) 1N1W to Lake Farm -> 1/2 Railroad
(2/2) Winery (2S of Lake) 1N1W to Lake Farm -> 2/2 Railroad

(1/2) Lake Farm to Banana -> 1/2 Railroad
(2/2) Lake Farm to Banana -> 2/2 Railroad

(1/2) Iron Mine (2N of Lake) to 1N1W to Farm -> 1/2 Railroad
(2/2) Iron Mine (2N of Lake) to 1N1W to Farm -> 2/2 Railroad

Phew. Barely made connected them.

Here's what we can fight with:


20 - 25 units in the Mechs v Minions area (SW coast) are cut off due to railroad bombing. No way to connect them.
I realized too late that I should have hit with Catapult and Cho-ko-nu before Cannons and Bombers, oh well.
I got another GG. YO. Now when I get Military Tradition + West Point, I can make 26xp units, too!

After a ton of fighting, we clear out the Tanks and a couple of SAMs while I'm at it. Thankfully, all of his Fighters attacked last turn, so none were able to intercept and stop my Bombers.



This turn I had 11,335 losses vs xist's 15,530 losses.

I checked Dems before and after this turn.
I had 10,421,000 soldiers and xist had 11,040,000 soldiers -- the first time in ages that my army was #2!
But now, I have 10,208,000 soldiers to xist's 8,594,000 soldiers. Dammmmmmmn!

For reference, coldrain has 8,552,000 and Gira has 7,696,000.

I was ready to end my turn - but there's another threat.



It's just 4 Tanks, no big deal. BUT IT IS A BIG DEAL. On T275, Xist finished West Point and converted to Theocracy + Vassalage + Police State. These are probably 26xp Tanks. They can hit Code Names and Smash Up. In the unlikely event that coldrain builds a railroad on a specific tile and Xist teleports for a +3 range boost, he can also hit Hues and Cues. If a GG pops up to give +Morale to one of them, then I'm still scared, but that seems like a bad move for him. I reinforced these 3 cities to 5 units each, so I should be safe.

I also asked coldrain to stop trading with xist, then asked him open borders with me. If he lets 26xp Tanks perch in his land without giving me open borders, my entire eastern front is in danger.

Charts/Dems:



Questions:
(Q1): Do we prioritize +10% and +20% intercept promos for SAM units? I think the first ones should have it, but with their 1-intercept-per-turn limit, maybe some +Combat promos are better when you have several, better chance of shooting down a plane when you intercept.

(Q2): What's up with Plastics? Everyone is teching it or at least sitting on it while they build up a bank. Gira got it a long time ago and that made sense, he could build the corporation related to it and his cities probably don't want Coal Plants. But Xist definitely shouldn't go after it, right? I figure we both maxed out on Coal Plants for our 2nd and 3rd wars against each other. I didn't think Hydro Plants replace Coal Plants if you already built Coal Plants, but even if they do, Plastics seems so expensive right now.

(Q3): Where do you build Airports? I built 3 in random cities to get 5xp Fighters, but xist has them all across our border for the 7 air units boost.

(Q4): How often do players hold grudges across other games? Are players intentionally aggressive against someone or won't trade with them because of past experiences with them? I don't see that happening with any of us this game, but still curious.

[Mjmd]

Q0) So you obviously hit him good this turn, but overall was the tank battle a win?
Q1) So you aren't meant to stack them. It doesn't work. If you have 100 destroyers on a tile it doesn't give you chance per destroyer. SAMs somewhat help with this because they have a range. Just spread them out every 9 tiles and overlap important targets with 2.
Q2) Standard ethanol isn't bad. PB59 someone founded and launched spaceship, but they died before they won. But ya for Xist its probably for modern armor.
Q3) So near the front is going to get pretty bad come nukes. I tend to build them in cities farther from front / central / newer production cities I haven't build a barracks in yet. But ya 3-4 cities just dedicated to is about right.
Q4) Most are pretty good about not holding grudges. That being said reputations for what people expect do carry over.

[Miro]

Q0) So you obviously hit him good this turn, but overall was the tank battle a win?
Q1) So you aren't meant to stack them. It doesn't work. If you have 100 destroyers on a tile it doesn't give you chance per destroyer. SAMs somewhat help with this because they have a range. Just spread them out every 9 tiles and overlap important targets with 2.
Q2) Standard ethanol isn't bad. PB59 someone founded and launched spaceship, but they died before they won. But ya for Xist its probably for modern armor.
Q3) So near the front is going to get pretty bad come nukes. I tend to build them in cities farther from front / central / newer production cities I haven't build a barracks in yet. But ya 3-4 cities just dedicated to is about right.
Q4) Most are pretty good about not holding grudges. That being said reputations for what people expect do carry over.

Q0) Yes, the battle was a pretty good win, aside from the city loss. And I feel safer in the short term with 81 of his Tanks dead.

Here are all the losses this turn:

[Miro]

Quick Question:

Last turn, coldrain finished The Manhattan Project. Then xist bulbed Fission. I'll do some tests to better understand Nukes tonight, but should I be evacuating my cities near the border?

1 city has ~70 units and is in range of xist's Tanks and Transports.

1 city has ~25 units and is in range of hill-moving Marines.