[PB79] MirOh No, what am I doing?

[Mjmd]

1) Can I get a picture of current state of that border?
2) How close are you to nukes?

Its unlikely even with Kremlin Xist can insta build nukes, so you have a couple turns and watch pbspy for large whips. Its FASCINATING that Coldrain finished the project though. Its kind of a waste of production for him unless he plans to join the party on one side or the other.

ICBMs EVEN WITH Kremlin, police state (is he in?), and a production corp are quite hard to build. They hit 9 tiles and have unlimited range. Tactical nukes only have a 4 tile range (albeit subs effectively increase that) and only hit 1 tile, but they are somewhat cheaper to build. Both of them will insta kill a couple units but damage the rest. Two nukes without a shelter will usually kill all or leave 1-2 units red lined. With a shelter 3 nukes. However, you can just use to soften up stacks for a regular attack.

MOST of the time you want tactical nukes as ICBMs are so expensive, so if you split stacks enough you can play around them (IE make the cost much lower than 2 ICBMs). That being said ICBM commando shenanigan's (and nuke commando in general) are very dangerous. So a key question is do you start an ICBM in both your HE city and Ironworks, or go with only tacticals. Obviously those high production cities can also get a couple tacticals out much earlier. BTW I should have said it but those are prime spread sid sushi to cities.

[civac2]

If Coldrain can nudge Miro and xist to nuke each other building the Manhattan Project is anything but a waste.

[Miro]

1) Can I get a picture of current state of that border?
2) How close are you to nukes?
Its unlikely even with Kremlin Xist can insta build nukes, so you have a couple turns and watch pbspy for large whips. Its FASCINATING that Coldrain finished the project though. Its kind of a waste of production for him unless he plans to join the party on one side or the other.
ICBMs EVEN WITH Kremlin, police state (is he in?), and a production corp are quite hard to build. They hit 9 tiles and have unlimited range. Tactical nukes only have a 4 tile range (albeit subs effectively increase that) and only hit 1 tile, but they are somewhat cheaper to build. Both of them will insta kill a couple units but damage the rest. Two nukes without a shelter will usually kill all or leave 1-2 units red lined. With a shelter 3 nukes. However, you can just use to soften up stacks for a regular attack. 
MOST of the time you want tactical nukes as ICBMs are so expensive, so if you split stacks enough you can play around them (IE make the cost much lower than 2 ICBMs). That being said ICBM commando shenanigan's (and nuke commando in general) are very dangerous. So a key question is do you start an ICBM in both your HE city and Ironworks, or go with only tacticals. Obviously those high production cities can also get a couple tacticals out much earlier. BTW I should have said it but those are prime spread sid sushi to cities.

His 25 Tanks just moved from Lixus to that fort and his navy just moved there, too. He might be looking to invade MvM soon. I'll probably cancel that Pavillion, don't think I'll be able to take the 2 tiles I want without the neighboring cities.

I can have Fission by T289 (3T away) if I build Wealth/Research in 80% of my cities. I'm pretty sure I'll lose 2 - 3 cities if I do that, though.

Xist is in Police State (has Cristo) and he just finished UN this turn, too.

If Coldrain can nudge Miro and xist to nuke each other building the Manhattan Project is anything but a waste.

I hear ya, but the timing is in Xist's favor and I've already been getting my ass kicked for most of this war, especially for the past month. Xist has many more long term advantages, so most of my "wins" from a month+ ago were because (after losing Mining Inc. HQ and Oxford) I sacrificed economy to fight Xist as much as I could and set him back. I'm trying to keep him from winning, I can't beat him in a 1v1.

Xist and I were fighting for 1st/2nd before, but now I'm arguably in 3rd, behind Gira.


For Gen lurkers now that Commando units are around, here's a map of key cities. Shows why I'm so scared of Commando Tanks perching in NA!

[Mjmd]

Does he have workers at the front? You could try to bomb his roads the turn he does big whips (don't do before he will just move up workers). Maybe delay a turnat least. Med is pretty exposed, but in the same vein I think you can take out Motya (might need a fort NW of Mechs for transport. If you can take out Motya it makes Fall of Rome much easier to keep. Make sure you have a couple of attack subs already built fyi. If you get to hit first Lixus would be tempting.

Does Xist have open borders with Gira?

Ya losing mining inc HQ was a big deal, but still for your first game you are putting up one hell of a fight.

And UN??? WHAT?!? Interesting. Call me curious.

[Miro]

T287 (Mini) Update:

T284:

Xist has Submarines skulking around my southern shore. Forgot Airships don't ID them in CtH. Lost a Carrier and Transport (+2 Marine +2 Infantry).
Coldrain kept our borders closed and kept open borders with xist. Rough!
Xist sent his 4 Tanks to southern NA. If they're Commando, 6 cities are in their attack range. Potentially 4 more if one of them has a GG attached - idk if I can see them attached.

I got all 6 of those cities up to 4 - 5 units and added a couple to the other key cities that an attached GG could mess up.



He kept them unpromoted T284, I added promotion image from next turn.

I offered Gira Dye for Hit Singles. (Accepted T285)

T285:

Xist's Tanks turned around after one promoted to Commando! That's right xist, I may be a dumbdumb with the slowest tech in the game, but I can count to 26!
They moved back a full 10 tiles north, so I'm guessing he promoted one to Commando, looked for a target with some Spies in the area, then turned home.

Coldrain finished the Manhattan Project at the start of this turn and Xist bulbed Fission. I was headed for Military Tradition (I want my own 26xp units), but I'll delay that for now.

T286:

Xist completed the United Nations. He hit my intercepting Fighters - I lost 13, he lost 12, then he sent his navy to one of his southern Forts, in range to hit my southern navy. I backed up. He can't target Mechs vs Minions (my southwestern-most city) without coming in range of my navy.

T287:
UN Vote!



I don't know how to vote after the pop-up goes away - I'm usually last in turn order due to war with Xist and I close the game right after rolling turn. The pop-up was there when I close the game, but not when I came back to play this turn. Looks like Xist would win it regardless of my vote.

Do I just have to let the turn timer expire naturally if I want to vote? (Q1 below)

I sent a 10T peace treaty to xist. His navy returned to its favorite lake, maybe things are quieting down while he builds nukes.

Sushi is spreading fast, ~3 cities per turn.

Techs:




I'm 3T from Fission, coldrain is 3T from Plastics.

Questions:

(Q1): Do I have to let the turn timer expire naturally if I want to UN vote? I'm final player in turn order and want to take my time when I see the pop-up.

(Q2): What are Commando Paratroopers capable of? IIRC someone said Commando Paratroopers are very scary. I think they just have a range of 5, but +10 with Commando. Can they start their mission from inside a Transport, making it basically 21 movement in 1 turn? I'll test around later, just weighing how much I need to account for those tactics.

[Miro]

Does Xist have open borders with Gira?

Yes, Gira has open borders with everybody. Xist and coldrain have open borders.

[Mjmd]

1) Sadly there isn't really a way to dismiss the pop ups and come back to them. So you have to make your choice when you log in. You can step away and think on it if need to.
2) That was me saying that! Very painful memory. Combined with ICBMs very very scary. But he would have to use a gg in order to give morale I believe. With your railroad network also very dangerous.

If you can increase fission by a turn by delaying spreading sushi do so.

[RefSteel]

(Q1): Do I have to let the turn timer expire naturally if I want to UN vote? I'm final player in turn order and want to take my time when I see the pop-up.

I believe you can also end the turn via PBSpy: Log out of the game itself, then instead of waiting around for the turn to roll, log into PBSpy and hit the end turn button which (I think!) shows up there.

(Q2): What are Commando Paratroopers capable of? IIRC someone said Commando Paratroopers are very scary. I think they just have a range of 5, but +10 with Commando. Can they start their mission from inside a Transport, making it basically 21 movement in 1 turn? I'll test around later, just weighing how much I need to account for those tactics.

Paratroopers can indeed start inside a Transport as long as they have full movement left and are carried to a city or fort-you-control whence they can start their paradrop. Doing so leaves them with only half a movement point left on arrival however, so a Commando could go just 5 more tiles on rails. If it then takes a Morale promotion, it could go yet 5 more on rails, but that does require an attached GG and an unused promo. If I'm remembering the mod correctly, Paratroopers can capture cities (or Workers) but can't attack military units after a drop.

[Miro]

1) Sadly there isn't really a way to dismiss the pop ups and come back to them. So you have to make your choice when you log in. You can step away and think on it if need to.
2) That was me saying that! Very painful memory. Combined with ICBMs very very scary. But he would have to use a gg in order to give morale I believe. With your railroad network also very dangerous.

If you can increase fission by a turn by delaying spreading sushi do so.

Yeah, I remember us talking about general pop ups, I wasn't sure if I could revisit one for voting.

And I'm saying that I don't have the option to vote based on timing and the "log out after turn" rule. I'm last in turn, so I end and the turn rolls. Then pop up shows up. Then I must close the game because I'm in war.
Then when I log in to actually play my turn, the pop up won't show up because it already appeared when I'm required to log out.

And yes, now I remember - it was the Morale + Commando Paratroopers I need to fear!

Took a quick screen grab as I closed this time:


I would have been able to vote for Gira. I can't say for certain if I would have, but I would have considered it. Especially because the last UN image showed votes from coldrain to xist, but it looks like he actually abstained. I don't understand the UN screen 

Glad to see coldrain isn't completely on xist's side, though!

(Q1): Do I have to let the turn timer expire naturally if I want to UN vote? I'm final player in turn order and want to take my time when I see the pop-up.

I believe you can also end the turn via PBSpy:  Log out of the game itself, then instead of waiting around for the turn to roll, log into PBSpy and hit the end turn button which (I think!) shows up there.

(Q2): What are Commando Paratroopers capable of? IIRC someone said Commando Paratroopers are very scary. I think they just have a range of 5, but +10 with Commando. Can they start their mission from inside a Transport, making it basically 21 movement in 1 turn? I'll test around later, just weighing how much I need to account for those tactics.

Paratroopers can indeed start inside a Transport as long as they have full movement left and are carried to a city or fort-you-control whence they can start their paradrop.  Doing so leaves them with only half a movement point left on arrival however, so a Commando could go just 5 more tiles on rails.  If it then takes a Morale promotion, it could go yet 5 more on rails, but that does require an attached GG and an unused promo.  If I'm remembering the mod correctly, Paratroopers can capture cities (or Workers) but can't attack military units after a drop.

I couldn't find the button :/
I'll just log out and then wait for turn to roll during the next election.

I didn't know that they needed to drop from an owned city/fort and that mod note is very important -- thank you! I'd have forgotten to look it up.

Paratroopers: can attack tiles without combat units after the drop

[RefSteel]

a city or fort-you-control

I didn't know that they needed to drop from an owned city/fort and that mod note is very important -- thank you! I'd have forgotten to look it up.

Sorry - my hyphenation apparently didn't make it quite clear: They can jump from any city (as long as they have open borders with the owner) - the requirement that it be their tile only applies to a fort (just like you can't use other players' forts as canals even with OB) - maybe with the exception of a vassal or permanent alliance situation (I didn't test those) but those options are presumably turned off here.