February 3rd, 2018, 17:31
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T58:
The English scout did not move south but north where it could only pillage the wheat. Maybe he should do that to give us the Inspiration for Defensive Tactics
The wheel is done and I switch over to Mathematics. With a campus and entertainment district done eventually, we will get the Eureka for it and can then build Petra. That is some time into the future, but we will get there.
Given that the builder is in no immediate danger, I let the warrior heal for a turn. I suggest to Sulla that the western archer moves towards Antananarivo, while both warrior and archer to the east (near Roma) move west to follow that scout in case England tries to pillage that Holy Site.
The builder will connect another sugar next turn (Sulla, you can actually request the first sugar on your turn as I will gain the second sugar that very turn). The missionary moves east and will reach Roma next turn.
Checking on Hangzhou's progress towards the builder, it is at 35/74 currently and with two turns of 19.5 hammers, the city might be too fast. However, I am sure there is some rounding issue here as the display clearly says, 3 turns. My guess is that in fact Hangzhou will end up at 73.5/74 the turn Shangdu finishes its own builder. That would be perfect for a maximum overflow into the temple.
In the west, Quanzhou grew to pop 5 and is no longer happy. That's the reason for the diminished faith and gold output. After changing the tile assignment, Quanzhou makes 10 hammers a turn to maximize horseman production.
Next turn, with a horseman produced, the income will shrink by 2. However, enabling Conscription will reduce this to 1. I will get an additional income of 4 gpt next turn thanks to sugar and Roma's conversion, leaving me with 24 gpt and the turn after, it should go up by 6 gpt (3 cities converted)
This is badly needed as I need to upgrade 2 slingers for now (90 gold) and buy two tiles for Beijing to build the entertainment district and Colosseum. Currently, those tiles cost 85 gold each.
Now, according to my planning, starting of Mahabodi will commence on T65, ideally I should have corvee enabled then. Next turn, I will finish G&R and then follow Rome on the way to defensive tactics. That civic costs 175 culture, hence 70 culture for China. Currently, China is making 10.8 culture a turn, and it would take 6.5 turns. There is a slight shortfall. However, Beijing and Hangzhou will grow in 3/4 turns and salt connected in 4 turns for more amenities. Together with some overflow from G&R, that might just be enough to finish defensive tactics in time to enable corvee. I think it is fine to delay Mahabodi start by one turn as the builder from Shangdu has to travel south anyway for a finish on T70.
Which brings me to the next item, the attack of Antananarivo (this would mean a reduction of 2 culture). I suggest to start attacking the city in 4-5 turns. I would prefer the Roman archers being positioned on two southern tiles (incense tile + tile 1W of incense), so that I have more room to maneuver my horseman around.
My missionary took a slight detour to remove more of the fog. Ideally, the missionary will move SE/SW next turn and still be able to convert Beijing in two turns. Antananarivo has lots of sea resources, but little space for a harbor and its wonders. I will need to sit down eventually and come up with a proper plan for placement of wonders there. Most likely, the city won't be able to support more than 1 wonder, so that only the fish resource needs to be removed.
In the southwest, I moved the slinger east to maybe get a shot at meeting Seoul next turn (the galley disappeared from our vision).
By the way, Sulla, your assumptions about the campus bonus are correct. Both are counted separately, not cumulative. You could get a bonus for Ostia's campus though by placing the CH southwest of it.
February 3rd, 2018, 21:29
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There is something else weird I forgot to bring up. When I was checking my resources, it showed 1 sugar, 0 spices (sent to Rome) and 2 citrus. I have clearly only one citrus connected. However, upon checking Lisbon, it shows that I am getting one citrus from Lisbon without any such luxury visible in their land.
Very odd.
I checked my trade screen and can only see one citrus to be traded there.
Important question for us, can I trade one citrus to Rome without losing the amenity myself? This would be really great as Rome can get +3 amenities from China for the time being until other luxuries are connected.
February 4th, 2018, 09:03
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Looking good Singaboy. If nothing else, your civ has officially met the England/Nubia team now. I don't think that their scout is going to declare war on us, I think the unit was trying to find a way around your culture to the west. Maybe Chevalier Mal Fet will change his mind when he sees that there's no path through, we'll see. Anyway, pillaging a tile is very easily repaired with the amount of builders that China has running around. The only thing we don't want pillaged is the Holy Site, and I think we can kill the scout if they try that. A warrior and an archer in the area would be enough to get the kill against a scout, and I'll move the Roman units as you suggested to keep shadowing that English scout. (Just remember the scout has the Ranger promotion and can move through forest/jungle tiles with only 1 movement point.)
I will definitely request the sugar resource on my turn, thanks for the reminder. With regards to the citrus resource, let's leave that alone for the moment. Rome doesn't need another luxury beyond the sugar and spices that China is already sending, and this could be some kind of weird buggy thing from the Civ6 interface. We definitely don't want China to lose that extra luxury resource.
For Hangzhou's builder, if anything lean on the side of not finishing the builder. Better to undershoot a little bit than overshoot and waste the forest chop we have lined up. You should be able to trust the turn numbers displayed in the production queue, but I'll just suggest being careful here since Civ6 has such a terrible interface.
Just to confirm for Beijing: the two tiles we need to purchase are the 2/1 forest two tiles east of the city (where the Colosseum itself is going) and the 2/2 grassland hill forest northwest of the rice. The Entertainment district itself is going on the 2/1 jungle tile east of the city. That's all correct, right? Perhaps we can set things up for a 1 turn hop into Land Surveyors when you need to purchase those tiles to discount the total cost by 20%. That would likely save about 30 or so gold and would be handy if we could manage it. China's income is developing really nicely though, none of the other civs seem to be in the same ballpark (albeit the Kongo/Khmer team where they apparently routed all the money to one player). We're going to be looking at a combined income of about 45 gold/turn shortly and that's just insane for this early in the game.
February 4th, 2018, 14:06
(This post was last modified: February 4th, 2018, 14:15 by Modo.)
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Is there a cooldown on city gifting? This could be so badly exploited with gifting a city back and forth to make use of both civ's bonuses when building something expensive like a district and having different multipliers apply to the same item from both sides; or to help one civ to generate more science / faith / gold at a critical time, etc. (ok, gold can be traded straight up but faith and science can't and trade routes are a joke in this scenario).
Or even to help with pop caps and district discounts by manipulating the districts built part of the formula.
Or this might have been regulated already and I'm just seeing ghosts
February 4th, 2018, 14:22
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I opened the save file to find that Cornflakes had accepted our Declaration of Friendship offer:
That's reassuring to see. At the very least we have one team showing friendly intentions. I also spotted this barbarian scout in range, perhaps the very same one who had been triggered at Ostia a little while earlier. I thought about whether to attack, then decided that I couldn't pass up a free shot against a barb scout on flatground terrain. At the very least, it meant 5 XP for a melee unit with no promotions as yet. My warrior took 21 damage and dealt 52 damage. Here was the view of the area after moving all units:
The southern warrior is continuing to move further to the south to get in more deep scouting. I'm moving the archer over to support the northern warrior against a probable barbarian camp along the east coast. It will be important to find out if the land ends over there to the east or keeps going further. The galley in the western waters looks to have revealed a small island with some nice resources on it. That area may be worth settling down the road, although we already have sources of truffles and cocoa closer to home. I doodled in some white dots in locations where I'd like to put future cities if all goes according to plan.
The biggest news though are the red tiles down in the south: there's some kind of city down there. Hopefully it's a city state and not a forward plant from one of our rivals. In either case, the warrior and/or galley will be scouting it out in a turn or two.
Here's the overview from back home. The whole central core of the empire is growing a population point next turn, and it's fortunate that the Chinese missionary will reach Roma to (hopefully) convert it before the growth takes place between turns. One wheat farm will be added next turn, finally, to help Ostia grow to the next size. This continues to be an area on high foot diets for the moment since there's no immediate need to finish anything. Mostly working on builders for post-Serfdom finishing dates.
I did request Singaboy's extra sugar resource:
China will be connecting a second sugar resource on Singaboy's turn for additional income and happiness. The sugar will arrive at a great time to give the amenities boost to Roma, Ostia, and Venezia.
This was a major turn for score changes. Khmer and Kongo both settled a city this turn, going up to 3 cities and 2 cities respectively. We probably want them to get a little bit stronger to avoid being roadkill for another team in the immediate future. TheArchduke also went up by 6 empire points this turn which is likely another city (that or two districts completing on the same turn, or technically one district and three pop points). I've also confirmed that EmperorK did *NOT* build a Lavra last turn as I suspected, which means that Russia appears to have 6 cities on the map right now. I have Russia with 6 cities and Germany with 4 cities right now, up from 2 cities and 3 cities respectively just four turns ago. Either I'm misreading the score tracking or they've planted a ton of cities in a hurry. There's some confirmation that Russia has been adding cities:
They have four cities in total following their religion right now. I suspect that Russia purchased a missionary with faith and used it to convert some of those new cities, although it's also possible that the conversions came from natural spread. Anyway, if I'm right they have 10 total cities right now compared to 9 cities for our team, and that's always concerning because you never want to be getting out-expanded. At the same time, if I'm right that's five cities planted in the last four turns, and there's no way that they have builder labor or district infrastructure in place for all those cities. This is one of the questions that we're still trying to learn in Civ6: how hard should you push expansion versus developing your existing cities? Japper did nothing but push out cities in PBEM4 and it backfired horribly on him. I'd like to think we've been balancing expansion against infrastructure pretty well in this game thus far, since we've been leading in city count the whole game until last turn, while also leading in science/culture/faith/districts/etc. Still, I honestly don't know the answer to this since Civ6 PBEM games are still relatively new. Maybe we would do better by cranking out more cities and not worrying about anything else.
My plan remains the same for now: set up the city walls overflow chopping with Limes and then crank out 2-3 settlers with Colonization policy as soon as that's done. We're still crushing every team other than Russia/Germany, but they're going to make this a tough game for us. Maybe it's actually a good thing that we don't stand out as much - less possibility of a dogpile.
February 4th, 2018, 16:19
(This post was last modified: February 4th, 2018, 18:48 by Singaboy.)
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Turn 59:
With the horseman done, city defenses all around the Chinese empire have shot up. Something I always find very satisfying to see in Civ 6. Games and Recreation is done too and again, I follow the Roman footsteps to get defensive tactics.
The English scout seems to have gone north to scout the land there. This is the chance to let my warrior heal in place a little longer. The builder at Hangzhou, of course, improves the sugar, which is then shipped to Rome immediately.
Quanzhou starts another horseman, this one will take 6 turns to complete before it most likely gets sent southwest to explore the land. The current horseman stays in Quanzhou in case the English scout wants to come back to Shangdu to cause trouble. There is no rush for the unit to do anything as it will take another 3 turns for Rome's two archers to be in position to attack.
I suggest to start the attack on Antananarivo on T63 with Rome firing two shots with those archers. I will then be able to attack with two archers and the horseman on the same turn before the city state can react. Unfortunately, its builder seems to mine the hill next. I would have rather kept that builder, but who knows, maybe it will build produce another builder for us to capture.
I know how to solve that small issue with the builder getting close to being produced at Hangzhou. I will need to swap production for a turn anyway, hence I swap to the temple this turn. Next turn, with Shangdu's builder ready, the cost will go up by 4 hammers and there won't be any issue at all with chopping the next builder out on T61.
I also swap the civics cards as stated before to reduce maintenance costs as I upgrade the first archers as well.
Time for the missionaries to get into action. Before I do that, I check the status of the cities. Milano is set to convert next turn. Beijing is supposed to convert by itself in 5 turns though I have no idea how city growth will affect that. I rather convert the city next turn to be sure. In fact, I am not sure whether those cities will gain a believer on population growth or not. As Roma, Ostia and Venezia grow next turn, the conversion might happen sooner or even later.
The religious charge at Roma is not enough to convert the city yet. It has now 2/5 followers and the question will be, with pop 6 will it have 3/6 followers and is that enough to follow the religion? I might have to spend another charge on Roma before using the last charge on Ostia. That's a pity as it means 2 gpt less for a while. It seems to be a better idea to convert new cities quickly before they grow too many atheists. I still hope I can add 6 gpt for the coffers next turn with 3 more cities following Marco Polo.
I move the wounded slinger toward the coast but do not spot the galley from Seoul. That would have been too nice.
February 4th, 2018, 19:05
(This post was last modified: February 4th, 2018, 20:41 by Singaboy.)
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Let's discuss the strategy beyond the next 15 turns.
From now until T77, cities will be busy producing builders and charging wonders. I hope to get Mahabodi and Colosseum within those turns. This will require Hangzhou to produce two builders, Shangdu one builder and Beijing one builder. In between, with Rome's help, I should be able to capture Antananarivo possibly by T65.
Beyond that, I would like to expand at least two cities in the west and southwest. With the Colosseum, amenities won't be an issue for quite a while. There are three spots W, SW and S of the Colosseum that could benefit from it as well. The locations of the blue dots can be moves slightly depending on fog busting. With those 3 additional cities, Colosseum would include 7 cities and by itself add 14 culture a turn.
I would like to get one of the settlers from Hangzhou (it has a semi finished settler), even if this means a drop in population on its way to pop 10. The others settler should come from Beijing aided by a wall chop. The smaller cities are much better for settler production due to the faster population growth. Maybe I should get a third settler to settle the northern tundra, though there are no forests to chop.
In order to protect our land, I would like Quanzhou to continue to produce military for the time being.
As long as Ilkum is active, I should pre-produce builders that will be finished with Serfdom and a powerful 7 charges. Those could then help to build the remaining wonders we would like to have (including a high priority Petra). Ideally, walls should be produced and the overflow chopped into settlers/builders. Beijing and Hangzhou seem ideal places for that with all the forests around, though Hangzhou should use those for its districts.
After that expansion phase, which would be in line with Rome's expansion, we might want to look for a first target to attack. We should have a nice advantage with regards to technologies and could push into enemy territory using legions, horsemen and potentially crossbows. What do you think, we should do mid-term, Sulla?
February 5th, 2018, 08:26
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Good news seeing that the English scout has backed off from China's borders. I don't expect Chevalier Mal Fet to declare war, but I can keep an archer around the vicinity of Hangzhou's Holy Site just in case. I think that's the only district in range to be pillaged, and we can repair any pillaged tiles pretty easily if he would start a war just to do that. With regards to the cultural city state, I'll keep moving my two archers towards it for the time being. Whenever you want to start the attack Singaboy, just let me know. I can position the archers wherever you want them to go. I agree that with a horseman and four total archers, we should be able to take down the city state without much trouble. Antananarivo has minimal units because we've invested minimal envoys. And while the land isn't great, there are some resources up there that we can work, along with that 2/2 grassland hill that was just mined. A free city is a free city after all.
Builder micro swap at Hangzhou sounds exactly correct to me. Looks like the forest chop will get almost the full benefit of overflow into the temple; I think the chop will be worth about 50-55 base production, which means with the Ilkum bonus you'll be looking at about 65 or so production overflow into the temple. That should be worth about half the cost of the building, not bad at all. Do you know what you want to make the next build afterwards at Hangzhou, while charging the Mahabodi?
With regards to missionaries: don't use another charge on Roma. It has to be pretty close to converting at this point, and we can better use those charges to flip some of the cities with smaller populations. I would use the other two charges at Ostia and Venezia as we planned. With those two converting and Milano hopefully flipping of its own accord, there would be 8 total units of pressure on Roma and that will be enough to flip it quickly.
I agree that the next general priority for China is to keep producing builders (both for improving cities and wonders) along with additional settlers. When you were discussing builders in your strategy post, I wasn't sure how this overlapped with our previous discussion on the subject a week or two earlier. Back then, we wrote that we had the following builders coming out for China:
Builder #1: Out of Hangzhou, used for improving tiles and chopping. It's already done and improved the sugar tile this turn.
Builder #2: Out of Hangzhou, currently under production right now. Intended for charging the Mahabodi.
Builder #3: Out of Shangdu, finishes next turn. This builder is heading to Beijing to improve the city and chop forests into the Entertainment district needed for the Colosseum.
Builder #4: This is the builder for the Colosseum's charges, we didn't plan where it was coming from. Probably out of Beijing itself using the chops from builder #3.
This is post #338 in the thread for reference. I can't quote it directly because I'm posting from my phone right now. Just for my own reference, is this still the plan or have we updated it to account for the last few turns? For the moment I'm assuming that this is our current plan.
We'll definitely want some further expansion from China as well. Hangzhou certainly should build a settler since it has one in the production queue about 1/3 of the way finished already. Beijing might be another good option for a settler, I'm not sure. It might be a little too small to build one in an efficient time though now that the costs are scaling up. We would ideally want to train multiple settlers at once to minimize the time spent in Colonization policy. As for the locations, something in the west or southwest in range of the Colosseum definitely feels like the way to go. Hopefully one of the horseman units can do some more fogbusting down there to give us a better idea of the best spots. I would not look to get a settler specifically for the tundra, not when there are better locations to settle in the south. We can always backfill in the northern tundra later.
Just to summarize: I think our midterm goals are just as you stated, build the Mahabodi and Colosseum while capturing Antananarivo and hopefully double-expanding China out to 7 cities. Ideally we will have that done in the next 15-20 turns. Longer term, we can think about hitting another team but I think that's still too far in the future for now. My midterm goal is to research up to Merecenaries civic via Feudalism and double expand out to 7 cities, then look to attack and capture the Seoul city state around Turn 80. Anything beyond that, including attacking other players, still feels a little too far in the future right now.
February 5th, 2018, 08:42
(This post was last modified: February 5th, 2018, 08:55 by Singaboy.)
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Sulla, for your reference, this are my micro plans until T77
T60 1st builder at Shangdu done at 74 hammers, moves to harvest wheat (4 charges left)
T61 1st builder Hangzhou chops forest (3 charges left) into 2nd builder -> overflow of around 70 hammers into temple (85) ,
2nd builder Hangzhou moves off to Beijing
T62 1st builder Hangzhou mines hill (2 charges left), 1st builder Shangdu improves salt (3 charges left)
T64 Temple done in Hangzhou, production starts on 3rd builder (production of 82 hammers)
T65 Mahabodi locked, 1st builder Hangzhou charges (1st - 1 charge left)
T66 1st builder Hangzhou charges Mahabodi (2nd - builder spent)
T67 2nd builder Hangzhou chops rain forest at Beijing, entertainment district placed, builder continues chopping and improving horses (ideally, the second chop at the future Colosseum site would go into an almost finished builder)
T68 3rd builder Hangzhou done, moves off to build Colosseum
T68 - T70 1st builder Shangdu charges Mahabodi (wonder done - builder spent)
T73 3rd builder reaches Colosseum site, starts charging -> ideally Colosseum done on T77
Hence, we get two builders from Hangzhou at Beijing, the first to prepare the ground for the Colosseum by chopping stuff for the entertainment district, the second to actually build the wonder. The builder from Beijing could move toward Quanzhou to improve more tiles such as cows, iron etc or even charge Petra (though that would need a finished campus at Hangzhou for the Eureka)
By the way, currently, harvesting the sugar would have resulted in 58 food, hence I assume chopping the forest will yield 58 hammers, a net of 75 hammers of which 5 are used to finish the builder.
February 5th, 2018, 21:24
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Singaboy, let me look over those builder micro suggests later today or tomorrow. Given the amount of time you put into planning those actions, I'm pretty sure that they're good moves. I'll see if I can suggest anything a bit later. Now for my turn:
The biggest news of the turn was discovering that the "red tiles" on the settler lens were not from a city state: they were from a Kongo city. That means we have a rival player not too far away. This isn't as bad as it might sound, however. We have a player near Rome... but one of the weakest civs in the game is over here. Kongo only recently founded a third city, and this looks to be that third city. While Rome did just sign a Declaration of Friendship last turn, I don't see that as a huge problem either. We weren't going to be ready to attack any time soon, and this should give us 30 turns to get ready for some kind of action in this region. The Declaration of Friendship should run out on Turn 88, and that's about when Rome will likely be ready to do something with legions. I'll keep exploring for the moment, and we'll see if we're in a position to attack in 20-30 turns.
I also realized something I should have spotted earlier: it looks like there's a tundra tile to the south of Seoul. This must be pretty close to the bottom edge of the map. It looks like this map is wider east-west than it is north-south. If we're lucky, then the weak Kongo/Khmer team is our "close" neighbor to the south and the stronger England/Nubia and Russia/Germany teams are further away to the east. Obviously we still need to do more exploring to conclude anything.
Further north in the lakes region, my southern warrior kept poking around. I'll try to get visibility with the southern warrior of that Kongo city next turn, or maybe the galley will be the one to spot the city center. (I'd like to hide the galley from Kongo if possible, no reason to let Cornflakes know we have a ship out there on the water.) The northern warrior fortified in place for the +6 defensive bonus against the incoming barbarian warrior. This will also allow the unit to heal a bit between turns. The Roman archer in the area will fire on either the barb warrior or the barb scout next turn, whichever looks like a better target. I'm glad that I have the DoF with Kongo right now, as an attack from the Kongolese unit would make things awkward here.
In the northwest, my archers are moving up to support Singaboy's attack against the cultural city state. I'm thinking of putting the Roman archers on the incense tile and the plains tile east of it, which will give them good positioning to fire on the southern city state warrior as well as the city center itself. (I can move one of those units onto the forest tile next to the fish once all the enemy warriors are dead.) It looks like one more turn to move up the archers, and then I can open the fighting on Turn 62. That's the plan, right? Let me know if you have something else in mind.
Domestically, there were two big things taking place. One was the growth of 3 pop points in Roma, Ostia, and Venzeia. The second big thing was the addition of Singaboy's sugar resource as pictured above. I currently have sugar AND spices coming from Singaboy - China's running my entire economy! Expect that to continue, especially once China gets Colosseum for happiness.
Roma finished a builder this turn and started... another builder. So it might seem like I'm being excessive here, but this really is a great time to churn them out with Ilkum and Urban Planning policies in place. I love the way the timing works here too. Roma will spend 2 turns on this builder and not finish it, holding it in place until I can slot in Serfdom for a 5 charge builder. Nearly all of the production will be done with the Ilkum boost though before it obsoletes. Anyway, that's 2 turns to almost finish the builder, then I'll work on city walls for 2 turns when Defensive Tactics/Limes policy finishes, and then chop a forest to overflow and finish most of the city's Commercial district. Then I'll train a settler after that and have a 5 charge builder ready to go for the new city. The +10% bonus food from being in positive amenities is also a real help, as it lets Roma grow in 10 turns to size 7. I think I can get an Encampment district down at size 7 before finishing a settler, which would be really nice. Just need the borders to grab an eligible tile somewhere - I'm not wasting a plains hill tile in the second ring on a district. One of those otherwise useless plains tiles would be perfect.
Elsewhere, Ostia grew to size 3 and started working the 4/1 farmed wheat tile. Only five more turns to size 4 after languishing for so long at size 2. I really want it to reach size 4 so that I can lay down a Commercial district on the riverside plains tile west of the city and then chop into it with Limes wall overflow. Venezia grew to size 4 and will finish that galley just in time before I swap out of Maritime Industries policy in 2 turns. I'm quite happy with how these timings are lining up for the policy swaps. It will build its own city walls next and chop into some kind of district, probably a Campus. (I'll need to buy the tile for that though, as no city will be expanding to the plains tile southeast of the wheat that was just farmed.) Venezia has two forests and a jungle available for chopping, which should be enough for the Campus district and the Bath district to follow a little later. I'll also likely spend a lot of time training ships out of here - there's enough water on this map that ships are going to be very important.
Milano and offscrene Firenze both grow next turn. Milano will hopefully be flipping to our religion between turns, and Singaboy should be able to convert Ostia on his turn. Roma is at 3/6 followers of our religion and has 7 units of pressure on it. There's only a matter of time there before it flips as well.
Score overview for the current turn. As always, my score didn't update this turn and Rome actually has 86 points. It's really obvious how our team and the Russia/Germany team are the ones dominating the game right now. It's basically like there are two entirely different games taking place, one with our teams and the other with the two trailing teams. I will say that England/Nubia have a pretty good army right now, albeit not spectacular. (Rome's power is about the same as either of theirs.) But England/Nubia is in last place in all the other metrics, while the Kongo/Khmer team actually ranks decently in techs/culture while lagging horribly behind in empire development. I would prefer to be in England/Nubia's situation for sure between those teams.
There's something else we need to talk about: I confirmed this turn that Russia and Germany are trading cities. Russia's empire score went down by 6 points while Germany's empire score went up by 6 points. There's no other explanation here, Russia founded a city and gifted it to Germany. I will defer to the lurkers on this, but trading cities between teammates strikes me as really dodgy play. They just set things up so that Russia founded the city - for the big border pop on city settling - and then the city was gifted over to Germany. Maybe we didn't specifically ban this before the game, but I really feel that shouldn't be allowed. What if we had Rome found cities and then gift them to China so they started with the free monument and free road connection? What if we take Crusade belief via the Mahabodi as we're planning, and then whenever one of our cities comes under attack, we gift the city to the other player so all the defending units get the "foreign city" +10 strength bonus? What if China build Venetian Arsenal, and then we gift the city with the wonder back and forth every time that either of us builds a ship to get the doubled unit effect? I mean, teams could really abuse this if we don't agree to stop it.
Is there any chance we can adopt a rule in this game to stop cities being gifted between players? It's not something I even considered before starting, I didn't think it would happen. I think it will lead us into some unpleasant places if teams start abusing it though. Trading gold or resources or Great Works all seem fine to me. But cities - I hope we can avoid that.
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