Gaspar and Lewwyn listen to backseat drivers Brick and Noble

[NobleHelium]

I guess Charriu is posting an explanation to various players and not just posting for redirection.

[Charriu]

We will be reloading to Superdeath' login in T111. He will play his turn and should declare war taking the first half. In case he forgets that, we ask you to declare war when you play after him.

As for our reasoning. We believe that Superdeath was aware of playing in a turn split with you for the last turns according to rule #6 of the pitboss etiquette. The fact that he waited till the end of the turn and let it role is also deemed bad sportsmanship. At the same time I have to inform you that we do not appreciate the way this developed. After all this is a simultaneous PB and you should not play after another player on a regular basis according to rule #4 of the pitboss etiquette. We do realize that you were in a peace turn split according to #6, but you can't expect a peace-time turn split to last until you or the other side eventually declares war. The other side must have a chance to claim their half of the turn according to rule #3 at some point.

As for your demand to remove Superdeath from PB admin duty. We do realize that Superdeath did not act responsibly with the role he was given as a PB admin here and rest assured that I informed him that we did not like his behaviour especially because of his role. At the same time we have to recognize that this is the first time this happened. So far we had no complains of any wrong doings by Superdeath as a PB admin in the past. Your claim that he is fast to add time or pause for himself is correct, but he did the same for others too even those with whom he was fighting in-game. Yes, sometimes he's too fast to add time, but that's not a problem that breaks the game for any single player. We do realize your anger and frustration, because of his chaotic nature, but we do believe that everybody should get at least a second chance.

[Gaspar]

I don't speak for the team, Lewwyn does, but I think the decision is pretty reasonable, even if not exactly what I would have preferred. Thanks for stepping in, Charriu et al.

Also, someone please remind Jowy of the old PB etiquette rule of don't be a dick. He breaks it about once a week.

[Lewwyn]

Thanks Charriu, I have no objections.

[NobleHelium]

I'm not going to post in the etiquette thread for now because I can't really post in a neutral way at the moment, but I wholly disagree that the current rules have solved problems for many games.  What really avoids controversy is people not caring.  As soon as you have multiple people engaged in conflict that care sufficiently, you have an intractable problem.  Mjmd declaring himself the attacker in advance in 52 didn't cause a major problem because pindicator is a very nice guy and let him have it.  That's what solved the problem - not the supposed perfection and unambiguity of the rules.

If anything I think the apparent codification of the rules and the belief that they are infallible if followed may have caused more problems than it solved because people point to their interpretation of the rules and say that they are in the right.

[Gaspar]

Yeah, I'm not posting in the etiquette thread anymore because I don't feel like arguing with a bunch of people who irritate me, but the current rule is basically, nice guy loses. But you can't convince anyone of anything on this forum anymore, its basically Lord of the Flies with Jowy and Superdeath dancing around a pig skull and Harry in a loincloth saying play nice to the savages.

Its a good thing we were semi-fussy about PBEM78, I genuinely like everyone in that game except SD and even SD I didn't have any negative opinion towards until his repeated antics here. Its amazing what a difference playing with people who don't agitate you makes for your in game experience. Well, and also PBEM, which is a much more relaxed atmosphere on the whole.

[Gaspar]

This is my last post on this forum for at least a few days while I cool down, but I would like Jowy to agree to suck my whole dick. I'm not sure how he thinks being an insufferable prick is going to accomplish anything positive for him - I might have some aggressive shit to say but I keep it to my thread. My posts in the etiquette thread were related to attempting to resolve what I perceive to be the issue and pushed solutions for what I perceive to be the problems. Like, MFer you are terrible at this game and have barely gotten any better in 10 years of repeated terrible games. Shut the absolute fuck up and learn something.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[NobleHelium]

Really Jowy? The problems all stem from not following the etiquette thread? Really now?

I suppose a minor change to the actual rules would be to require the maintenance of a war-time turnsplit during turns of enforced peace.

This. Then, if there isnt a war/no one is declaring after the enforced peace, there is no turnsplit. Simple.

Let's just double move SD every time there is an advantage to do so in the future.

[Lewwyn]

Anyways I can't get imgur to work right now so I can't give you pics right now. I'll figure it out later.

We're at war with SD and Amica. I DOWed Amica to kill his chariot that has been poking our borders for the last 20 turns. Then I sent a peace offer. Basically Our plan was to DOW and peace out Amica once we were out of enforced peace in order to ascertain whether he and SD were working together to 2 v 1 us. If he accepted peace we would continue war more aggressively with SD, otherwise we go a bit slower. In any case Amica has rejected our peace offer and made it clear he wants war, which is fine we've never trusted him since he came at our capital with 2 chariots. If he had accepted peace maybe he would have turned towards Civac and backstabbed him given civac is hitting AT right now, but it seems Amica doesn't really understand that. We've accepted that the game is likely over and won by Civac so we're just goign to have fun with our ridiculously oversized Ballista Elephants.

I've cratered our economy by 38gpt, but we have created a legitimate army and we are moving to strike. Now that SD has attacked we are currently ready to counterstrike. He has not moved any units into our territory.




We had 2 enforced peace treaties expiring within 2 turns of each other with 2 hostile neighbors that were clearly working together (amica gifting SD horse) and had in the past shown that they would both attack us at war (Amica running chariots at our capital). I'm staying out of all the pitboss etiquette because honestly I've tried not to be a jerk this whole game, and I think a few turns of a peace timesplit at imminent war is reasonable. I'm pretty surprised that this has caused such an uproar over the whole forum. I honestly think that a peacetime split in this situation of a clear war situation coming out of enforced peace, where we literally plan to attack is pretty clearly within the bounds of etiquette. It just makes sense when both parties are very clearly "at war" even if they aren't strictly at war yet. Whatever man. I'm just trying to play a game, have fun and win with my best effort. I don't hate anyone personally except maybe the guy who's not involved in the situation but still showing all of his ass by making demands and admitting to purposeful antagonism. 

[NobleHelium]

By the way I don't think there should be any decisions made in regards to Pitboss conduct until after this game is over. Lewwyn noticed today that Amica is giving superdeath 40 gpt. Amica is not close to being the leader in the game so I don't see how that advances his chances of winning by committing to such a cost just to help stymie our conquest of SD. As far as I can see they are pissed at a perceived slight over supposed wrongdoing over the turn splits even though one of their team members Mjmd has been involved in turn split incidents in order to get the second half in his last two games. So I don't think there can be unbiased discussion over the nature of simultaneous turns and how to maximize fairness within this framework until this game is over and people have cooled down. That is also why I am minimally posting in the etiquette thread - I don't think my posts are much effective at the moment.

I'm also dubious about whether some forum members really understand the second half advantage. The vast majority of the advantage lies in the fact that production does not process until the second half player has played. This is actually an INSURMOUNTABLE ADVANTAGE in the modern era - if I am bombing your oil in the second half every turn you LITERALLY CANNOT HOPE TO COMPETE IN A WAR WITH ME. But that hasn't occurred in recent memory so nobody remembers it. Before the modern era it can be anywhere from a moderate to a huge advantage, depending on the nature and power of the first strike. All other benefits of the second (or first) half pale in comparison to this fact. And also people are too stuck with the old idea that the defender has a big advantage in war - that is often not the case because we have largely moved past the poorly conducted wars of slow 1-movers with catapults moving deep into opposing territory.