November 30th, 2009, 11:45
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I saw that athlete / kalin's thread is a bit active, so I figured I might as well send off our note.
Quote:Just wanted to drop you a quick note. Hopefully your holiday weekend was nice. Mine was pretty good - we didn't go anywhere nor did any (extended) family come visit us, so we were just by ourselves. So while not the "traditional" big gathering, it was nice to just kind of relax and enjoy a low-stress long weekend.
But now (at least for me) it is back to the grind..... :-(
So you will have undoubtedly noticed that we have settled our 2nd city in your direction. We did not intend this to be an overly aggressive move towards you, but we can understand that you would have preferred us to settle in other directions. We thought long and hard about where to settle, and in the end decided on this spot. It is 6 tiles from our capital and (if I have pegged where your capital is) 5 from yours, so approximately in between us. Needless to say, we do not plan on founding any cities further towards your lands.
We remain interested in a NAP and other ways of cooperating with your civ (that was not just idle stalling talk last week - it was meant in earnest), and hope to hear from you soon with your thoughts
November 30th, 2009, 11:54
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Okay - I was chatting a bit with sunrise today and he did not seem to be that worried about our defenses. I have to say that I am a bit worried about it, since if athlete has copper, even 1 axe could really put a world of hurt on our 2-3 warrior defense.
So darrell, can you run 2 Oracle sims. One basically what you've done before (but updated with our new sandbox numbers) and one that goes Priesthood->Archery->Pottery. The 2nd one potentially delays the Oracle, but also allows us to use some of our worker labor in other directions (since I am assuming we would need 1-2 less chops) Or potentially whip an archer into Oracle overflow?
I know I'd sleep a lot better if we had 1-2 archers on a holy city hill. And Archery is required for Project Cataphract, so it's not off the beeline.
November 30th, 2009, 12:06
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My thoughts were that if we're beelining for the Oracle than we may as well make sure we get it. I'd prefer archers, all else equal, but I worry about missing Oracle. So my preference is to acknowledge the risk of the Oracle plan and then go for it.
That said, if Archery somehow does not delay the Oracle then I'm all for it.
November 30th, 2009, 12:33
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I'm kind of with surnise on this, let's roll the die (yet again). Note that very soon after The Oracle completes we will have Copper online and both cities in position to build/whip some axes.
Darrell
November 30th, 2009, 15:49
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Okay - athlete / kalin's thread is hopping today. And they're the only folks left who haven't ended turn yet. So it would seem logical to presume that they have noticed our somewhat aggressive settlement and are trying to decide what to do about it.
We don't know how many units they have built, nor if they have advanced units (archers, chariots, axes, etc) nor when they might be scheduled to get some of those.
I don't plan on sending them another email till they reply to the one I sent this morning, but I thought it would be useful to start figuring out what we might say to them.
Here's a list of a few things I've thought about
* We had to found there because we needed to be on a hill in case you attack us
* Downplaying the copper (bluffing that we already have other resources and that's why we left the copper till the 3rd ring
What I really need to know though, is what kinds of things are on the table in negotiations?
* NOT - Paris
* NOT - any sites up river of Paris
* YES - free missionaries?
* YES - no settliny any further east
What else?
November 30th, 2009, 15:59
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Also my MS Project plan still has us tracking to a T166 date to be able to build Cataphracts.
Still very loose since it's hard to say what our research pace will be 100 turns from now, ya know?
November 30th, 2009, 20:14
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Okay I did some sims and I think maybe Archery isn't such a bad idea after all. It delays The Oracle by a few turns, that's true. However I think it is a good idea since we don't get the Copper online until turn 68 according to my latest sims. The longer they take getting a reply back to us the more worried I become.
The other thing that concerns me is our Worker going to camp the Deer. That's a pretty attractive target. Can we tell if they have Horse or Copper? The only way I can think of without a trade route connected is to ask the Incans for intel. Maybe we should do that. If they have Chariots that Worker can be snatched with ease. Do we want to Mine the Gold first? I think is slows growth but is the safer path AND doesn't delay The Oracle.
Darrell
November 30th, 2009, 20:19
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I just logged in and they do have a Warrior near the Gold. I think we should move the Worker to the Gold and cover with our healed Warrior. The Deer is right on their border, if they are going to attack an exposed Worker is a great way to start. Until we can get an Axe on that Deer I think we should ignore it.
Darrell
(who is now paranoid and wishing the Copper was a bit closer!)
November 30th, 2009, 20:25
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I am fine with Archery and mining the gold. Can you give an executive summary on what the different paths mean, in terms of Oracle turn as well as ending city sizes / production?
November 30th, 2009, 20:32
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I haven't run both paths to conclusion yet, will do so tomorrow. I just wasted a bunch of time trying to figure out how to speed up the Copper without losing The Oracle only to realize that the limiting factor is the culture  . That concerns me greatly, we are 20 turns away from fielding a "real" unit.
Paris will have no growth, it will be working just the Gold. Unfortunately unless we get a positive diplomatic message back we'll be stuck in this configuration until we get the Copper online and put a Spear and/or an Axe on the Deer. The alternative is to build and work a Farm, but I would not choose to do that until we have done our slingshot, by which time we'll have Copper and can at least think about camping the Deer.
I think because of this situation I'm willing to put more "on the line" as you suggested than I otherwise would. To secure a nice long term NAP I'd grant them everything to the east and south of Paris. That probably won't appease them, we really need to hope they don't have a strategic resource.
Darrell
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