PBEM17 Organizing Thread

[spacemanmf]

Do you still need an extra player? I might be interested if Spaceman is interested in being my teammate.

Count me in.

[spacemanmf]

Incidentally, I would be in favour of some form of limited diplomacy. For example, I have been happy with the way the in-game only chat has worked on PBEM 13.

I'm guessing rego might not be in favour of this given his penchant for a penning diplo novels but I just thought I would throw it out there.

[T-hawk]

T-Hawk can you expand a bit on sequential pitboss? Is this an actualy in-game mode

Yes. It runs on the Pitboss host but the players take turns one at a time instead of all at the same time, so the turn sequence operates like a PBEM. (Live lobby or direct multiplayer can also work this way, just nobody does it.) The CFC multi team demogame with SANCTA etc was set up this way. Any player can log in at any time but you can't do anything when it's not your turn. (IOW, exactly what the various double-move rulesets try to implement.) I think you can do diplomatic deals which makes that run with a smoother turnaround time than PBEM. And it's really easy to run a blitz session and knock through a bunch of turns with everybody continuously logged in.

IMO, the biggest advantage is simply no save chasing. As an outside observer, it seems about half of the delays in PBEMs are caused by forgetting to send the save or sending the wrong save or spam filters or other nonsense.

I'd strongly recommend this for any RB mod game since Pitboss has the ability to update mod components during the game which PBEM will reject.

If the latter, is there a way to generate auto-notifications that we are "up"? I'm looking to avoid the need to obsessively check civstats .

That I'm not sure but I think there is. sunrise is our Pitboss expert and he may know.

[Krill]

Any player can log in at any time but you can't do anything when it's not your turn. (IOW, exactly what the various double-move rulesets try to implement.)

That isn't actually true. You can change tech, you can alter city labourers, you can receive and give tech, and you can alter the slider. There are several scenarios where people will hang on to the turn due to trying to get a diplomatic (read, tech and resource or gold trading) deal done.

And it's really easy to run a blitz session and knock through a bunch of turns with everybody continuously logged in.

Identical to a PBEM...apart from you don't have to have everyone logged in at the same time, you don't get lag when moving units, and you you don't need the network issues that go with that. It is in my experience a lot simpler to set up a blitz for a PBEM game than a PB game due to the connection issues

I'd strongly recommend this for any RB mod game since Pitboss has the ability to update mod components during the game which PBEM will reject.

That is useful to know. Is it possible to start a game as a sequential pitboss game, and then move it to PBEM? I know you can open a PBEM save in a pitboss server and play it as a pitboss game, does that allow you to change the mod components as well?


That I'm not sure but I think there is. sunrise is our Pitboss expert and he may know.[/quote]

[T-hawk]

Aha, thanks for the clarifications.

Ok, maybe a blitz isn't easier than a PBEM, but it would be more effective. You could turn around the early turns in 5 minutes rather than the usual 30-60.

That is useful to know. Is it possible to start a game as a sequential pitboss game, and then move it to PBEM? I know you can open a PBEM save in a pitboss server and play it as a pitboss game, does that allow you to change the mod components as well?

Yes, a pitboss game can be moved to PBEM. I don't know for sure whether you can change a mod component by moving a PBEM back into Pitboss; we never got to try it in PBEM4. :neenernee

[Krill]

Aha, thanks for the clarifications.

Ok, maybe a blitz isn't easier than a PBEM, but it would be more effective. You could turn around the early turns in 5 minutes rather than the usual 30-60.

Yeah, but it takes up to 30 minutes (at best!) to get everyone logged in. The rule of thumb I use is that up to about 3 people, sequential pitboss is faster for the blitz sessions, then PBEM works best up to about 6, and maybe 7 if you get it set up perfectly with players in the right timezones, and above that Simultaneous is the fastest because there are so many players.

Generally, it's because of NAT that larger games become really hard to play in both MP and PB.

Yes, a pitboss game can be moved to PBEM. I don't know for sure whether you can change a mod component by moving a PBEM back into Pitboss; we never got to try it in PBEM4. :neenernee

yeah yeah we can test it with PBEM16 if we find out something has gone wrong, fair deal?

[regoarrarr]

Okay - sounds like we have our 5 players. Can we get some weigh-in on PBEM vs. sequential pitboss?

I strongly prefer PBEM because I can't (easily) connect to a PB server at work, while I can play PBEM saves (sometimes).

I think that if we use Mist's(or similar) tracker we shouldn't have problems with chasing who's up.

[regoarrarr]

So back from page 1, this is what I listed as settings of the game, slightly updated

So, we have 5 players already and need one more

1. darrelljs
2. regoarrarr
3. Shoot the Moon
4. Kyan
5. novice / spacemanmf

Here were the basic settings we had agreed to

* 5 person
* No leader / civ restrictions (unrestricted leaders), snake draft
* No active Espionage (great spies must be settled / GA)
* No nukes
* No Tech trading
* Custom Continents, one continent per player - note this does not necessarilly have to be the Cust Cont map script - just the idea is that everyone is on their "own" continent
* All continents are galley reachable by every other player, without having to go through a 3rd continent
* No coastal capitals
* "Lush" settings, with extra resources (maybe each continent has at least one of every resource?)
* Continents are not exactly the same but are balanced
* No War Elephants / Elephant UUs
* Events off
* No permanent alliances
* No vassal states
* Default Starting Units
* The Heroic Epic and West Point can only be built once you have a qualifying unit that has always been yours, and if joined to a GG, the GG was one you spawned yourself
* No restrictions on settling only on "your" continent


Settings up for discussion
* Any other intermediate islands between continents?
* I'm thinking toroidal wrap - main reason is that I don't see any good way to make it so everyone borders everyone else otherwise.
* Monarch-ish difficulty / maybe lower if we do toroidal
* Normal barbs
* Huts?
* Contact only upon in game meeting?
* No map trading / screenshots till paper?
* No out of game diplo?

So, if we could get a check-in from each of the players if they're okay with the "agreed" settings and their thoughts on the discussion settings

For me, I'm fine with the first bit of settings, though I'd probably be okay if we wanted to ban a very small selection of folks (maybe Willem / Sury / Pacal / India / Inca?). I'm also fine with no restrictions

Islands, difficulty and barbs up to the mapmaker -

Huts I'd lean towards off but don't care

And no strong opinion on the last 3 - I'd be okay with no out of game diplo a la pbem13 but would lean towards allowing all diplo

[mackoti]

To late.

[spacemanmf]

I think intermediate islands would be good, but I'm not really fussed.

Toroidal is fine, so maybe Prince?

I'd prefer no barbs this time. I've fallen out with barb axes thanks to PBEM13.

I think it would be fun to have huts on. Yeah it's random, but it's just something different.

And, as before, my preference is for no out of game contact.