[SPOILERS] Don't mention the war

[plako]

I've run some tests and tech path is almost certainly AH(7)-Mining(12)-BW(21)-Wheel(25)-Pottery(29).

Capital will start with WB and citizen works mainly the Fish and after growing hammer tiles so that WB is ready on T7. Worker is started then and it is finished on T11. After that it gets a bit less certain, but now I think Worker-warrior-settler so that we're size 4 when starting the settler and have option to whip it or something else a bit later. There surely will be someone getting 2nd city up way before us, but I think delaying founding until we've another defender and 2 workers is worthwhile. One problem is that we've no way to pop borders since we don't have Mystisicm so that will probably had to be tech after Pottery and maybe there is a religon we could try to grab after that.

1st Worker gets Pasture ready on T15 same turn we get 2nd worker ready that can go either mining a hill or farming the Flood plains (I'll do latter almost certainly.)

[NobleHelium]

See the wording of iskender and my NAP in ffh5 - it offers a neat solution to being last in the turn order. It is in a recent post that I can't be arsed to link as I'm on my phone

The terms were that the team that cancels the NAP gets to attack half a turn later. That only works for rolling NAPs, not NAPs of determinate length. The fairest way would be to randomize which side of the turn split it ends on, but it's not great either way.

You want Pottery for granaries, yeah? Depending on what other people are doing it might be better to go for religion after BW.

[plako]

Yes. Pottery for Granary, but Religion run could be ok also.

T0

Just moved the warrior and settled in place there are flood plains and plainshill gems close by. Utilizing fish. I'll keep warrior scouting close by.

[plako]

T1

Based on demographics everyone is acting as suspected assuming close to identical starts. All having the fish are working it and researching something with a prerequisite (BW ) and probably building WB. TMIT is probably researching AH and working grassland forest and building a worker and switches to forested hill after border pop to take advantage of Expansive. It is pretty clear that without Fishing his opening will be significantly slower than the rest of us. He'll get Pigs improved 4T before me, but at that point others have had Fishes improved already 5T. That is significant amount of less food and commerce and he still needs to research Fishing after AH.

Flying camera trick revealed that the map is toroidial so I probably have all players as my neighbors. Map size is standard and there is 795 land tiles in it.

Concerning scouting there is a very strong 2nd city candidate in the south that has corn and potentially could share pigs with the capital, but this is very preliminary.

[SevenSpirits]

You thought I was lying about it being toroidal?

[plako]

You thought I was lying about it being toroidal?

more like - didn't read the manual.

[Square Leg]

The terms were that the team that cancels the NAP gets to attack half a turn later. That only works for rolling NAPs, not NAPs of determinate length. The fairest way would be to randomize which side of the turn split it ends on, but it's not great either way.

Yes - that is true. The trouble with NAP's is that 95% of the time they end with war. It seems it is impossible to just end a NAP and carry on being at peace, if not a little more cautiously towards one another.

Having the first move when a NAP ends is probably more important in ffh where mobility is generally much greater than in bts.

[regoarrarr]

Natives would be a very interesting pick...I don't think anyone's picked it before.

Ad hoc picked them in PBEM8

[NobleHelium]

Yes - that is true. The trouble with NAP's is that 95% of the time they end with war. It seems it is impossible to just end a NAP and carry on being at peace, if not a little more cautiously towards one another.

Having the first move when a NAP ends is probably more important in ffh where mobility is generally much greater than in bts.

That's part of why I don't like NAPs. It's either you keep extending them or everyone assumes war will break out afterwards.

[SevenSpirits]

That's part of why I don't like NAPs. It's either you keep extending them or everyone assumes war will break out afterwards.

That's the point. NAPs are a recognition of the fact that being able able to declare war and then attack with troops is, militarily, the same as already being at war and being able to attack with troops. (In fact if you have open borders the former situation is sometimes MORE dangerous as you can move troops on enemy roads and then have them teleported somewhere more useful when you declare.)

Being zero turns away from possible war at any given moment is usually undesirable for both parties, and if not at least negative-sum. Hence NAPs.