Thread of Lost Tales: Bismarck of Japan

[The Black Sword]

Yeah, Ind forges are great and I'm looking forward to getting access to them. I could certainly see MC being our first 'big' tech and it's probably our oracle target if we're going there. If you compare a 60h forge per city vs 2c per city from Currency, the city needs 8 whips inside 30t to pay back the 60h(that's generally my rule of thumb payback period) and if it makes 4h per turn then that 1hpt from the forge roughly equals the 2c from currency. Compared to Calendar, it depends on the resource distribution but the happy from the forge could be just as much as from calendar resources(especially as we have wines, usually means 1 less calendar resource) and you just have the great deal of 60h for 25% hammers. Of course Calendar has the MoM too, which is very tempting for an Ind civ. In a vacuum though, the Metal Casing looks very competitive with the other options. I don't think not having the hammers to build them will be a problem. 60h is pretty easy to scrape together and unlike the most obvious competitors, workers/settlers, I can put hammers into forges whilst growing.

Actually, I'm thinking about oracle again and wondering what I would consider a better target than MC? If Currency or Calendar are better, they probably won't be better enough to justify the delay to Maths. If I'm delaying things, I guess Feudalism or Machinery are the most attractive options. Theology could also perhaps use some consideration if Haram has taken Henge.

[The Black Sword]

I better start some player profiles now that all the picks are in. IIRC, there's a pretty good Imp opening that gets a T26 settler at size 3, with 1 forest chop, which gets 24 free hammers from Imp. I wonder if that's why GJ switched from Byzantium, to get all the tech in time for that.

[The Black Sword]

Lots of rivers; good for the Fin civs. Too bad that tile 3S of the capital is water, I was sort of hoping to put my second city there if it had resources, to share the Ivory and fish.

I had fleshed out some WB first openings yesterday, but they don't work so well with the early exp granary play. You can actually get the settler out faster that way(because time to BW is the limiting factor) but I prefer the extra worker turns from worker first.

Our inital scouting is going to be pretty poor, Hunting has to wait for our third tech and we have to build both a granary and a workboat before our first warrior. We better make the most out of our scout then and focus on finding some second city locations. There's another mountain 1N of the one you see in the fog. I'm hoping Krill won't have a choke point so close to our start and I can head West first and loop back around those mountains.

[The Black Sword]

-All second cities require AH food.
-I don't have enough time to get AH after BW and this also delays any wonder builds.
-2E of Ivory looks like it might be the best bet.
-Would be nice to find some resources for all those rivers.

-Choke point to the West, the jungle makes it look unappealing.
-I can see a further body of water in the fog in the north east, and it's not fresh water so it's big. That will probably split us up into a northern front and an eastern front.
-Are we supposed to colonise the land to the south and if so when? Seems likely someone else started on that landmass but it is right beside our capital.

Some interesting decisions to make already.

[The Black Sword]

Haram - Qin Shi Huang(Ind/Pro) of Sumeria



Might as well talk about Haram first since we've been doing so already. Of the players I know, I think him and GJ are the two biggest threats in game. PB20 is his only RB game IIRC, but he's clearly an experienced player from other sites. In PB20 Joey tried to rush him pretty early and took them both out of contention. But Haram won their internal duel and had the best finish from the non-superpowers group. He showed himself to be a pretty tenacious fighter in that game and hopefully he gets a chance to show off his economic abilities here.

I like his leader obviously. Pro looks really powerful for this start, though at least the first worker bonus is not as relevant. He'll probably want to leverage Ind into some economic wonders if he is going to work some plains hills over cottages. As the only other Ind player in the game we'll have to watch each other pretty closely. Sumeria is interesting, Courthouses will be built pretty late and Vultures are usually not a particularly impressive bonus. His starting techs are Agri/Myst, actually the only pair in this game that could get away with religion first. It looks like he's gone for a fishing opening instead but he still has the option of going for a religion.

[The Black Sword]

GJ and Brick - Victoria(Imp/Fin) of Mali



I expect this team to be mostly run by GJ based on historical trends. He's a very good player and is certainly one of the bigger in-game threats. He might have a bit of a hot-head reputation, but I think a lot of his posts in the forum are exaggerated and he's really quite a cautious player. I think that's one area of his game he could improve, deciding the proper time to take a risk and roll the dice.

Victoria is the solid pick she always is, regardless of mod. Imp for the early game and Fin for the late game. With only 4 early river grassland at my capital I didn't think Fin looked all that tempting. It's possible that they have a few more rivers but even if our starts our mirrored, there seems to be plenty of rivers in the surrounding area for Fin to shine. Vicky has all 3 gold buildings half price, which is a bit excessive. Barring a late game rush-buy economy, I think she loses some value there. Mali is also a nice pick. Mints are above average, Skirms are above average and the starting techs are above average. Lots of small bonuses but nothing spectacular.

[The Black Sword]

Scipio - Cyrus(Imp/Cha) of Khmer



Scipio is a newcomer with all of 5 posts to his name so far, what could there be to say? His playing ability is one of the biggest unknowns in the game at the minute and we'll have to be pretty cautious towards him unless we're given reason to assume otherwise.

I guess I'd rate his combo slightly below average due to Cha. We already had Ivory (and wines) at the capital which is a point against Cha IMO. I guess with Cha you don't need tech so much and can spam Imp cities while knowing you can always recover the economy pretty easily. Maybe that's the plan. I think Imp is pretty good here, due to general availability of hammers and for a specifically good opening. Khmer is probably chosen mainly for the Hunting/Mining techs. Scipio appears to be using these to do a BW first opening, which I find a bit strange if his start is like mine. Maybe it goes well with Imp to chop out an early settler but there's not many forests to begin with and delaying your best yield tiles for so long seems fishy. I don't see the Baray or Ballista elephant being that important, perhaps I underestimate the elephant's utility though.

[The Black Sword]

Deer! We're saved from animal-handling hell!




Still need to think about how I want to dotmap everything, the river region with no first ring resources is kind of awkward. But this is enough information to make some plans at least. Plus my scout will be healing for the next couple of turns as I wait for Hunting to come in anyway.

Metal Casing is looking pretty attractive with the silver, and maybe gems. That 'x' would make a pretty good Colossus spot too if planted early enough. It's on a hill too. After PB18 I have a new appreciation for hilltop coastal cities.

It looks like we're on a medium sized 'island' with choke point connections out onto more land. I'm not a big fan of having clearly defined territory like that but there should be at least this much land again out there in the world to compete for.

Working the (unimproved) wheat at the minute as I grow on the granary. I put 2t into a WB before Pottery came in.

[The Black Sword]

I'm tempted to settle 1 SE of the Deer for a super science/Levee city and use my capital more for production to which it seems better suited. Here's my best run so far.




I have 3 granaries, 2 workers and Stonehenge landed on T43. I suspect that won't be fast enough if Haram wants it but I don't think I'm willing to make any sacrifices to speed it up. I'm trying to preserve forests in the capital because that looks like the best place to build future wonders. This setup is pretty compact but I like the potential for sharing all those tiles, particularly if I can stagger the whip cycles.

I met Scipio to my West btw.

[The Black Sword]

Glad I sent my scout to doublecheck down here now.




I guess we'll want to move the sheep city south to pick up the crabs, which means the 1SE of Deer location is more desireable but the 3rd city will be a bit slower short term.

I still haven't met anybody wandering around that southern landmass yet. Still haven't figured out the map and related GLH implications yet either. Btw GJ or Haram founded Hindu, I'm betting Haram.