[SPOILERS] How do you make this thing work: Krill randomly mashes some buttons

[Krill]

I think settling in place and scout first is the plan. Warrior to stone then look south, if the south is a bust for second city location then the scout either checks the desert to see if it's useless then moves clockwise around the capital looking for CS and second city sites. The warrior either also cycles clockwise, or heads to identified second city location.

If barbs show up, scout warrior settler. If no barbs and identified second city site, I think settler second should be considered. Slinger third or definitely fourth as stated. I have to ask what growth on rice>citrus looks like to reach size 3?

[Krill]

Just for completeness sake, how quickly does settling in place and going builder first get off? Improve the rice, trigger the inspiration for calendar, then hang around waiting to improve the citrus? Then wait and see what tile gets picked for culture. I'm guessing the cow which sucks. Would this work best taking the 1/3 tile? This makes no sense to me, rice only gains 1 food right?

[Krill]

Qyesstion regarding settler costs.

As settlers always cost one pop when they are built, does the gold buy cost only apply to the hammer cost of the settler? if so, it makes sense to build settlers in lower pop cities correct? So growing vertaically to then build a settler seems stupid, unless the growth to the higher pop size yields such a hammer increase that it outweighs the food cost from growing.

In this instance, I would think that growing to size 3 only makes sense to then work 1/3 tiles? There is a single 1/3 tile inner ring, the second tile would not be picked up by city culture as there is no resource on it. If the cow was picked up as the first tile, then I don't see the point in growing to size 3? Settler at size 2 and accumulating food to regrow to size 2 once the settler is built seems smarter...

[Cornflakes]

Food Growth Costs:

City Growth Formula: =ROUND(15+8*(CurrentPop-1)+(CurrentPop-1)^1.5,0)

Table:

Current Pop	Food To Grow
1	15
2	24
3	34
4	44
5	55
6	66
7	78
8	90
9	102
10	114
11	127
12	139
13	153
14	166
15	179
16	193
17	207
18	221
19	235
20	250
21	264
22	279
23	294
24	309
25	325
26	340
27	356
28	371
29	387
30	403

Culture Expansion Costs

Culture Expansion Formula: =ROUND(10+(6*(ExpansionNum-1))^1.3,2)

Table:

ExpansionNum	Culture Required	Cumulative Culture
1	10	10
2	20.27	30.27
3	35.29	65.56
4	52.84	118.4
5	72.27	190.67
6	93.23	283.9
7	115.49	399.39
8	138.89	538.28
9	163.33	701.61
10	188.69	890.3
11	214.93	1105.23
12	241.96	1347.19
13	269.74	1616.93
14	298.22	1915.15
15	327.37	2242.52
16	357.15	2599.67
17	387.53	2987.2
18	418.49	3405.69
19	450	3855.69
20	482.04	4337.73
21	514.59	4852.32
22	547.63	5399.95
23	581.14	5981.09
24	615.12	6596.21
25	649.55	7245.76
26	684.4	7930.16
27	719.68	8649.84
28	755.37	9405.21
29	791.45	10196.66
30	827.93	11024.59

I can't remember where I found those formulas.

[BRickAstley]

Globally spoiled so I cannot give specific advice, but I do see scout first more often than builder first. The bonii being first to find City States, and knowledge of the lay of the land and geopolitical situation are very valuable. And you can (often) get away with working unimproved tiles longer as well.

[Emperor K]

Due to the movement rules i usually use my warrior to scout out the local area around the city. The scout may catch a break north east and be able to get some turns for using all 3 movement. A unit can only move if it has enough movement to go to the next tile or it has not moved yet.

The 1/3 tile will be good for production at size two if you work the food from turn one. I don't think builder first is going to net that much since we will need some tech to finish before all 3 charges can be used. Mess around with citizen placement and you should be able to hit size 3 the same turn the settler finishes to mask the pop loss until the city is founded. The idea is to get the settler out as fast as possible to working 3/1 and 1/3 may get it out the quickest.

Good call to get some military out, use the greece ability to hunt down some barbs after city 2, if barbs do show up they can sometimes show up enmass (singaboy in PBEM2) so 2 warriors and a slinger would be a good option then it will be builder time and we can have all the techs needed to actually use him.

Reassessing the situation after we have explored more to see if gettting a third settler out or waiting for the early empire and putting in settler card. we also got to deciede if we want to try fro first great gg or if we can rush PP first.

[Cornflakes]

Cornflakes, I love you. Thanks for making civ6 pbem games possible

You're welcome, glad to help out! I do it partly in self-interest since I don't have time to commit to daily turn playing, but enjoy reading along. Hopefully they release a fully functioning world builder soon though so I can dedlurk one of these games

Also, I posted some of my general thoughts on build order and priorities for the first 25 or so turns in Japper's PBEM4 thread when I was originally planning to dedlurk him.

[suboptimal]

Can anyone explain the forums for food needed to grow, settler and builder production costs, district costs formula in a more entertaining way than Suboptimal already has, and culture needed for border growth please?

I understand that 2/2 tiles are considered the best tiles, and with that rice inner ring food should be good, then there are the cow, citrus and wheat tiles to bolster growth as needed later on, but it seems production poor until borders pop.

Yeah, it's a little production poor until the city expands but that won't take too long.

Cornflakes got the food and culture costs for expansion.  Builders start at 50 and this increases by 4 for every additional builder.  Settlers are 80 for the first one and the cost increases by 30 for each additional one.

Base district costs are according to the approximate formula FLOOR(54*(1+9*(FLOOR(100*MAX(Techs/67,Civics/51))/100))).  I say approximate because I've seen several versions of it -- the 67 and 51 are the number of techs and civics in the game and that's where I've seen variations in the formula (this is close enough, though).  Replace the 54 with 27 when building specialty districts (Acropolis), 36 when buiding an Aqueduct and the flat cost is 2000 for a spaceport.  I'm already on the record regarding how district discounts work.

There is a formula thread at CivFanatics here

I never quite understood the rules for scout movement. 3 move, right? And ignores river crossing penalty?

3 MP but does not ignore river crossing penatly.  However, a city on a river bridges it, eliminating the penalty for units moving to/from the city while crossing a river.

I think settling in place and scout first is the plan. Warrior to stone then look south, if the south is a bust for second city location then the scout either checks the desert to see if it's useless then moves clockwise around the capital looking for CS and second city sites. The warrior either also cycles clockwise, or heads to identified second city location.

If barbs show up, scout warrior settler. If no barbs and identified second city site, I think settler second should be considered. Slinger third or definitely fourth as stated. I have to ask what growth on rice>citrus looks like to reach size 3?

Running the numbers (and not counting interruptions by barbs or opponents):

- Rice first, then citrus + 1/3 tile is Pop 2 at Turn 5 and Pop 3 at Turn 17. 
- Citrus first, then citrus + 1/3 tile is Pop 2 at Turn 6 and Pop 3 at Turn 18. 

For a scout -> settler build order they complete both units in the same time (scout on T8, settler on T19).  The rice-first approach is marginally higher in and .

Just for completeness sake, how quickly does settling in place and going builder first get off? Improve the rice, trigger the inspiration for calendar, then hang around waiting to improve the citrus? Then wait and see what tile gets picked for culture. I'm guessing the cow which sucks. Would this work best taking the 1/3 tile? This makes no sense to me, rice only gains 1 food right?

The builder won't be waiting for the tile expansion as the city will expand at least once before you can possibly complete the builder - you'll have 10 in 7-9 turns (palace gives 1 per turn).

From what I've seen, the sheep or stone would get picked before the cow as those are 4 yield tiles while the cow is 3 yield.  You'll probably see the picker be indecisive as to which of the sheep & stone will get picked first.  It might be worth considering buying whichever of the two tiles the picker doesn't take.  Improving the rice, stone and sheep would get you four boosts - Craftsmanship, Horseback Riding, Irrigation and Masonry and give you a 5 and two 2/3 tiles.  

Qyesstion regarding settler costs.

As settlers always cost one pop when they are built, does the gold buy cost only apply to the hammer cost of the settler? if so, it makes sense to build settlers in lower pop cities correct? So growing vertaically to then build a settler seems stupid, unless the growth to the higher pop size yields such a hammer increase that it outweighs the food cost from growing.

In this instance, I would think that growing to size 3 only makes sense to then work 1/3 tiles? There is a single 1/3 tile inner ring, the second tile would not be picked up by city culture as there is no resource on it. If the cow was picked up as the first tile, then I don't see the point in growing to size 3? Settler at size 2 and accumulating food to regrow to size 2 once the settler is built seems smarter...

The gold cost of purchase is always 4x the cost.    A "typical" plan seems to be to build one settler early, go vertical to increase , and and grow to empire pop 6 for the Early Empire boost then restart settling when Early Empire is completed in order to use Colonization for the discount.  A builder and 1-2 military can be completed during this part of the process depending on the / balance.

Regarding pop growth, depending on the build order and tiles worked the city might not lose a population if you hold the city at size 2, provided the excess food bucket is full enough.  Growing from 1 -> 2 requires 15 and if the city has at least this much excess stored when the settler completes the city will immediately regrow the lost population.  Anyone watching the score for clues also won't "see" the settler come out as they won't see the corresponding reduction in your empire score from the population drop.

[Emperor K]

Excellent suboptimal! Exactly what i was thinking. I definatly think some military then builder on the way to early empire is the way to go. Getting culture and having a deterent against possible enemy scouts trying to snipe your builder will be good. Are you thinking on a getting an encampement and running 2GG card to get the first GG or thinking going straight for PP? The research Sulla did in one of his threads suggest that getting PP by mid 60's is the best course however diviating if we cant the GG card may be worth the couple extra turns. I don't think we will have a problem though once we can start killing barbs.

Not sure if buying a second 2/3 (after builder works) tiles instead of just working the 1/3 though. (i tend to horde gold in case of emergencies, also like to buy buildings so i tend to advise towards not spending on tiles)

Getting to pop 6 total for early empire is good however with houseing of 5 in the captial i don't think the extra 1 prod from sheep / stone will end up being 1 food compared to the 1/3 hill is worth the builder charge. There may be a use at city 2 that will yield more benefit. Maybe tile picker will pick the stone or sheep second and then improve with second builder? I do agree though that getting all those inspirations are really nice.

[Krill]

So if I'm reading this correctly, the warrior is 40 production, slinger 35p and scout 30p? Settler 80, builder 50?

CoL is 20 culture, and once I get that it's obvious to run both GK and UP. That's +1 faith, gold and hammer. Takes 15 turns to reach there. Killing a barb unit is worth a bit then.

Oh, now I see the palace gives 2 hammers. This UI sucks as more than I recall. Why doesn't the UI tell you how much food you have saved either?

Also, the %age modifier from amenities stays at 5% until the capital reaches size 3 right?